Can God push us too far.

Lyfe

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I don't believe in the bible
as it's been rewritten by man how many times
Why I suggested it could be used as a control tool
As I stated in the other thread
My beliefs are mine
I am sharing my opinion of this topic
I am not saying those who believe are wrong
I have explained this in the thread I shared
I am doing what I believe is what we are meant to do
Be as good as you can be
We are imperfect
as we were made in the image of our "creator"
I believe it makes our creator imperfect as well
I do not believe you need a book or a building
to be spiritual or to be good
I know right from wrong
I have a moral compass to guide me in my choices
I know death is not final as I have died a few times
be it short times
It was enough to allow me to know the end is not the end
Something is after this
Whether you believe in the manmade stories
that we are told is the word and journey of our creator and his child
Does not make them true
Lost in translation is what the book is to me
If it ever existed
it is so far removed from the original
That the truth is gone gone from it
Except what the remakers want us to know

As I stated a few times now
Treat people the way you want them to treat you
It's all we can control
The Bible is the most scrutinized book in the history of man. If it was truly changed it would be easy to prove.


In regards to your assertion that the Bible is meant to control the masses.
I could maybe agree with you if the ultimate message in Christianity wasnt one of love your neighbor and love God. Who would benefit from corrupting a book and leaving us with messages of love your neighbor and and putting God first? The elite surely wouldnt since they always outlaw or drown out the message of Christianity in their various systems of government.

They dont want people to follow Christ or allow any of their subjects to have loyalties outside of the state. You cant control part of a population who has loyalties to a man that teaches things contradictory to your system of control. Look at the atheism of communist regimes. Christianity and the Bible was a big problem. Millions died.

The elite surely dont want us loving our neighbor and living pure and moral lives. They want us corrupt, materialistic, and debased which is why there is one christian television station to hundreds of godless tv stations that promote violence, drugs, materialism, and depravity. Thats what they really use to control the masses. If they wanted to control people thru Christianity then hollywood would make more Christian films. They dont want the world to be Christian when you really examine the evidence. It doesnt benefit the ruling class, because if everyone was Christian then there would be no holocaust, no world wars, no poverty, no inequality, none of that. If everyone was truly a devout Christian those things would not exist, at all, yet the elite are satanic and love these things.

Lets say the Bible isnt true. At the very least it promotes men to love one another and promotes a set of standards. How does that benefit the elite? It really doesnt if you think about it. It could if the second part of the messsage in the Bible wasnt to put God first, but since it is to put God first that basically undermines the authority that the new world order needs for itself. All they can do is lie about scripture and twist scripture like the church of rome and hope Christians dont acctually read their Bible to know what it says.
 

redqueen

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For the devil and his angels
And anyone who does not put their faith

Or asks for god to come into their lives repent worship
How is this different from when others worshipped their dieties
Only because the religion says it is (or those who rewrote it wants us to believe that)
God wants for us to believe he is the one and only
We are to worship n back in the day provide sacrifices for
How many are killed in the name of god/Jesus
Why would god allow predators in his house
as his voice for the masses
To use him as a means to perpetuate their doing
To misguide and destroy the faith people have in him
It only pulls more from him
I know I know free will
We are here to face trials,tribulations and temptations
We are meant to decern and see the evils they are doing
Then turn away
We are all guilty of judging others by their actions
When we are told we are not to do so
Anyhoo sorry to ramble
I am mostly repeating what we debated in the thread I posted
I understand some need their faith and the book
Others such as myself do not
we are happy to believe in something greater
without labling what we believe in
With what we have been all been told is the name
That is their belief I will not change it
Nor will you change mine
 

redqueen

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Jesus said that.

You can read it in His book the Bible.
I know it's in the book
That's where I learned it from as a child
Among the many other things I learned
It's a simple truth
It does not take a book to teach me
that when someone is cruel to me
I do not like it
So since I do not like it
I should not be cruel to others
 

TokiEl

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For the devil and his angels
And anyone who does not put their faith
Acts 10 34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.


Anyone who do what is right is good with God.
 

TokiEl

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I know it's in the book
That's where I learned it from as a child
Among the many other things I learned
It's a simple truth
It does not take a book to teach me
that when someone is cruel to me
I do not like it
So since I do not like it
I should not be cruel to others
Right.

That's all God wants from us.
 

redqueen

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Lyfe
I understand your veiw point
I just do not agree with it
Why would they allow it
Simple answer
It also helps in divide us further
Like they always do
no matter what it is to cause that divide

As I already said it's just my opinion
It is my experience with religions that lead me where I am
If god knows ahead of time everything
Then how do you know
I am not doing exactly what he wants of me
 

Lyfe

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@redqueen

If God is the reason for all the suffering in the world then he must also be the reason for things like pleasure and joy? People want to blame God cause 5 year old suzie has Leukemia, but nobody wants to thank God for giving them their kids or spouse, or family pet, or their ice cream sundae, or fresh air, or their garden, or their promotion, or anything else good that happens to them or other people. You will attribute tragedy and calamity to God but wont also give him proper due for all the good happening in your life and the lives of those around you. Is that fair or does God only deserve to be called out when bad happens? What about when little Rachael makes cupcakes for her parents? Or do u just want to use little suzie having leukemia to characterize and judge Gods nature?
 

Lyfe

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Lyfe
I understand your veiw point
I just do not agree with it
Why would they allow it
Simple answer
It also helps in divide us further
Like they always do
no matter what it is to cause that divide

As I already said it's just my opinion
It is my experience with religions that lead me where I am
If god knows ahead of time everything
Then how do you know
I am not doing exactly what he wants of me
As long as ideas and people exist there will always be division. The Bible or religon cannot be blamed for a divided world. Sports teams cause division. Are they bad?
 

redqueen

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Acts 10 34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.


Anyone who do what is right is good with God.
This makes it seem as though
I can do whatever I want
as long as I stay fearful of god and the punishments he might dish out
Can fallen angels/demons find their way back
if they repent and serve in gods name again
They only fell from following the devil in rebelling
However we are told no
They reside in enternity of hell
What makes anyone certain
if they do what it says in a book
that has been tainted by the translation of man
 

TokiEl

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This makes it seem as though
I can do whatever I want
as long as I stay fearful of god and the punishments he might dish out
You can do whatever you want as long as what you do is right.

And you do what is right because you fear God.


What makes anyone certain
if they do what it says in a book
that has been tainted by the translation of man
You don't really need a book to tell you to do right.
 

TokiEl

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God is the most sensical Person i know.


Many nonsensical persons have made God in their image.

And that's why there is so much nonsense about God.
 

voj

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If you really break it down by serving God we are really serving and loving one another. His ways lead to life and peace.

The alternative is when people serve themselves. That hasnt gone very well, has it?
Like i earlier stated - when we dont understand something we react. Imagine all those years of countless wars and power over one another yet we still found control and stoped it. I believe humans can do better than God. But we will always have the thought of wanting to become God and rule.
 

Karlysymon

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I wanted to bring something up and that is the very nature of suffering in life and how I am really struggling with the idea of a good God. Now I have always heard this argument but it's clear I have never really suffered enough.

As much as I understand the concepts. For instance the paradox of. Live a good life, but do not value ur life here on earth. Look to the next life. But in the same breath is this life is bad. Do not moan or groan. Personally I have become confused on what or who God is.

I don't know if I'm being punished or being saved. I'm supposed to feel grateful for tragedy in life or at least resigned which is counterintuitive. I struggle to find a meaning in life when God makes himself almost impossible to detect in the journey of my life in a sense of the roadmap Is not your typical get saved and become okay.

I'm reminded of the man who wrote it is well with my soul - Horatio, but you know as much as I want it to be well with my soul that sentiment just doesn't cut it.

Then I look at some of the fates that have befallen people particularly rare diseases such as fatal familial insomnia, crutzefeld Jakob disease. And see immense suffering inflicted upon someone to the degree that I do not see a reason.

A big side of me just doesnt get it.

The wrath of God poured out on the cross, I just don't get it. Why do we need to be tortured in an eternity to satisfy Gods wrath on our sin. Why not obliterate it ?

I have accepted some of these things on faith without fully agreeing or understanding at times. Particularly when I am faced with my own suffering and my own circumstances and how unfailingly ironic the affliction has been. To the point that I'm surprised I do not go around living life in reverse in hopes of the opposite happening.

If God doesn't move in ur life and grant u peace or if he doesn't resolve whatever u have going In and instead wether it's ur fault or not further complexes issues u came to him to resolve for.

Could one be pushed too far to the point where belief in God has been made almost impossible. Can God push us too far and if so why?

Alot of the issues I feel Christians find hard to rectify are much easier to muse on and assert from a Christian view aslong as they are not actually happening.

I post this thread out of angst and frustration. And on a bit of a merry go round with faith. I don't see the plan, I mean I don't see the good, I don't see how the being allowing this CAN be good. And when I look at others suffering in this life either it means something or it doesnt this life and I just can't fully reconcile it right now and that's not to say I won't someday because without God my life feels even emptier but there's a certain satisfaction In the rebellion given that it intuitively what is happening and why just doesn't feel right.
It wasn't easy for me reading your post because you are going through a difficult time in your life. That said...

Questioning God's character (His goodness, in this case) means Satan is waiting at the door with a deeper entrapment because it is foundational. God cannot be good today and bad tomorrow. To entertain an evil nature to God's self forces you to put Him and the devil on equal footing. Isn't this how people wander off into atheism? If God is "half-evil" and the devil is evil, then what's the point of it all?

To "know whom we have believed and are persuaded thereof..." is foundational to our walk. I don't think that Job, amidst his incredible suffering, would have exclaimed :"though He slay me, yet i will hope in Him" (13:15) if he ever was unsure about the goodness of God. He had every opportunity to believe that God is sadistic, enjoying a snuff film (starring Job) for the day but he didn't.
As our example, when Christ was tempted in the wilderness, He fought back against the tempter with the scriptures..."It is written..." and that's the best defence you also have (the sword of the Spirit~Eph 6:17). The scriptures testify to the eternal nature of the goodness of God...that He changeth not. When you approach your problems and the devil's wiles from this angle, it's alot easier. God will always be good, whether we like it or we don't, whether we believe it or disbelieve it. Our actions have no impact whatsover on the Person that He is.

"I the Lord do not change.." Malachi 3:6

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever" Hebrews 13:8

'"All the ways of the Lord are loving and faithful..." Psalm 25:10

"...the Father of the heavenly lights who doesn't change like shifting shadows" James 1:17

"Because of the Lord's great love we are not consumed, for His compassions never fail. They are new every morning; great is Thy faithfulness" Lamentations 3:22-23 and 31-33

I will also add that i think your post is timely because as Christians, we have to mentally and spiritually prepare for what is up ahead. The re-engineering of humanity currently underway was the pushing of the "self-destruct" button...the conclusion to every project originating in sin. Iam under no illusion that there are glorious days ahead (on this planet) and the scriptures speak of a "time of distress" unlike ANYTHING since the beginning of time. We can't imagine that kind of distress because it hasn't been permitted to exist, yet. Yes, there will be countless suicides, intense privation, people dear to you will abandon the faith, etc, so the only question becomes; how much of an impact these besetting circumstances will have on your faith in God? It's not something easy to think about or prepare for and yet we have to ready ourselves somehow.

"At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people will arise. There will be a time of distress such as hasn't happened from the beginning of the nations until then. But at that time, your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book - will be delivered." Daniel 12:1

"For then there will be great distress, unequalled from the beginning of the world until now and never to be equalled again. If those days hadn't been cut short, no one would survive but for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened." Matthew 24:21-22
 

Lyfe

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Like i earlier stated - when we dont understand something we react. Imagine all those years of countless wars and power over one another yet we still found control and stoped it. I believe humans can do better than God. But we will always have the thought of wanting to become God and rule.
How many more thousands of years are we going to have to wait before humans finally do better?
 

voj

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How many more thousands of years are we going to have to wait before humans finally do better?
We are all brewed from ignorance, i was once ignorant of me self until i began to have God control. Naturally, man is a very slow learner and it takes the rest of forever to wear off ones ignorance.

Others prefer being in their comfort zone and spread the same mindset on the unborn ones. So, where do you expect to see some improvement? Its like making a choice for another.
 

Lyfe

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We are all brewed from ignorance, i was once ignorant of me self until i began to have God control. Naturally, man is a very slow learner and it takes the rest of forever to wear off ones ignorance.

Others prefer being in their comfort zone and spread the same mindset on the unborn ones. So, where do you expect to see some improvement? Its like making a choice for another.
You can't change human nature. Its as Jesus said a diseased tree cannot produce good fruit. The Bible says that the heart is deceitful above all else and desperately wicked. Man in his fallen nature cannot usher in the utopia that you are hoping for. He is utterly incapable, because of his fallen sin nature. Reality and human history seem to attest to that. Wars, genocides, homelesness, greed, poverty, destructions, prejudices, hostilities, selfishness, pride, adulteries, evil thoughts.

Your humanist "good without God" ideas have deceived you into thinking people are something they are not. We are sinners with a sin code that only the holy spirit can change. Sin and the death code are in your very DNA.
 

Alanantic

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You can do whatever you want as long as what you do is right.

And you do what is right because you fear God.



You don't really need a book to tell you to do right.
I'm pretty sure everything you know about God came from a book. Or, have you had a personal experience of this God you speak of?
 

voj

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You can't change human nature. Its as Jesus said a diseased tree cannot produce good fruit. The Bible says that the heart is deceitful above all else and desperately wicked. Man in his fallen nature cannot usher in the utopia that you are hoping for. He is utterly incapable, because of his fallen sin nature. Reality and human history seem to attest to that. Wars, genocides, homelesness, greed, poverty, destructions, prejudices, hostilities, selfishness, pride, adulteries, evil thoughts.

Your humanist "good without God" ideas have deceived you into thinking people are something they are not. We are sinners with a sin code that only the holy spirit can change. Sin and the death code are in your very DNA.
Why can a all knowing God create this same human being give it brain and know it will live in sin and not do anything about it. That alone spoilt the whole concept of creation.

Even the same scripture says man has become one of us knowing good and evil. Is that a coincidence coming from a creator?

If am deceiving me self, i will cry about it later. Also, i dont believe i am born into sin am just unaware of what i am and what i could become. Life is nothing but a cage to me and we both are slaves for it.
 

Lyfe

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Why can a all knowing God create this same human being give it brain and know it will live in sin and not do anything about it. That alone spoilt the whole concept of creation.

Even the same scripture says man has become one of us knowing good and evil. Is that a coincidence coming from a creator?

If am deceiving me self, i will cry about it later. Also, i dont believe i am born into sin am just unaware of what i am and what i could become. Life is nothing but a cage to me and we both are slaves for it.
God did do something about it, but you believe not.
 
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