Judged by the law and works

Maldarker

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There is no condemnation for those in CHRIST:

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh
 

phipps

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Why do you even bother, bro?

"If you truly repented of your sins...."

Surely this guy did. Unlike us.

When someone defines repentance as turning from sin, that's all I need to hear. Complete misunderstanding of Christianity in general.

Dear phipps, if you're truly seeking, read this. I hope that God will open your eyes. God bless!


What does Repentance mean in the Bible?

The New Testament Greek word "metanoia" which often is translated in English as repentance literally means “to change the mind.” Repentance is sorrow for sin and turning away from sins. Because repentance is a gift, therefore, sorrow for sin is also a gift, and thus turning away from sin is also a gift (Acts 5:31). Thus, we do not change our lives in order to come to Christ. We come to Him just as we are, and He changes our lives (John 6:37). God gives us repentance before He gives us forgiveness, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord" (Acts 3:19).

I have read the link you posted and its not speaking according to the Bible. It says:

God’s Word clearly states that salvation is by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

Ephesians 2:8-9: [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
This is true. The Bible is clear on this.

Then it states, "Lordship “salvation” (LS) is the unsupportable and unbiblical belief that the PERFORMANCE of good works, the PROMISE of good works, or the EVIDENCE of good works MUST accompany faith in Christ in order to establish, or provide evidence, that such faith has resulted in eternal life.
Then they haven't read James 2:14-18 which says clearly as well, "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." I don't think I have to clarify much here because its self explanatory.

They go on to say,
"LS can be overt (one must forsake all of his sins and follow Christ in obedience and discipleship in order to receive eternal life) or VERY SUBTLE (one’s behavior will change once he has received eternal life, one must desire to get better in order to receive eternal life, one must want to have a relationship with Jesus in order to receive eternal life, or one must go beyond mere intellectual assent (head faith vs. heart faith) in order to receive eternal life.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that any of these man-made conditions are necessary for one to receive eternal life. And yet, such things are taught by many churches, ministries, and pastors throughout professing Christendom.
Man made conditions? They must be reading a different Bible to the one I'm reading.

When a rich young man inquired of Christ, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” Jesus replied, "But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:16,17). The verses that follow show clearly that Christ referred specifically to the Ten Commandments. The rich man asked "Which ones?” and Jesus replied, "You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself’ (verses 18-19). This is the same Jesus who saves us through grace by faith. Yet He said throughout His time on earth that we have to be obedient, repent and other conditions to salvation.

Why? Because being saved by grace does not free us from being obedient to the law and doing all the other conditions that we've been commanded to do. Paul wrote, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" (Romans 6:1-2).

Why? Because sin is still the breaking of the law and always will be for eternity. In fact, Jesus came to magnify the law. How did He magnify it? By the example of His life here on earth. Christ's life was that of perfect obedience to His Father (Luke 22:42, John 4:34, 5:30, 8:29, 12:49). We are to emulate Christ's example.

God gives us His grace abundantly but He also makes it very clear that only those who will respond in humility, sincerity, obedience and unyielding faith to Him will be saved. He will provide everything necessary for salvation to those who are willing to be saved. The only contribution we have to the plan of salvation is making the choice to accept God’s gift, there’s nothing else. Salvation is free, but we have to demonstrate our faith and sincerity through our works. This means living sanctified lives on a daily basis consistently reflecting the character of Christ through our words and actions.

Some proponents of Lordship salvation will allow that salvation is by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, but then will insist that a saved person will show signs of being saved, such as sinning less and doing good works. If these “signs” are not present, they will insist, or at least heavily suspect, that a person has never believed in Christ as Savior.
I refer you to James 2 as I quoted above plus I think it is really unfortunate that so many Christians remember only one portion of the statements of Christ and reject others. They preach about accepting Jesus Christ as a Saviour but there is more to it than that. There is an active side to Christianity. Bible doctrine is about living a sinless life, about saving us from our past sinful lives, keeping the ten commandments and doing God's will and a certain working out of our own salvation.

Matthew 7:21, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."

Philippians 2:12, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;"


This thought process can never lead to assurance of salvation, because it is always dependent on how one thinks he is DOING at any given point in time (we put DOING in all caps, because it is a work). Other folks think that God knows whether or not they are TRYING (we put TRYING in all caps, because it is a work). Trying will not help you attain eternal life. Eternal life is a free gift, received when someone trusts in Christ alone for it.
They and you don't get it. If anyone is trying to do anything in their own human will power they will fail miserably of course. The Bible makes that point very clear. Its Christ's power in us that enables us to do what He commands of us. We are to come to Christ, accept His free gift of Salvation through faith, surrender our wills to His and He will transform us from the inside out.

John 15:5, “He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.”

2 Corinthians 2:14, “Thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ.”

Philippians 4:13, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."


Your doctrine is not biblical, its man-made and it ignores what the Bible says we should do to get salvation.

John 15:14, “You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.”

Hebrews 5:9, “He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.”
 
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Jimmy Onions

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What does Repentance mean in the Bible?

The New Testament Greek word "metanoia" which often is translated in English as repentance literally means “to change the mind.” Repentance is sorrow for sin and turning away from sins. Because repentance is a gift, therefore, sorrow for sin is also a gift, and thus turning away from sin is also a gift (Acts 5:31). Thus, we do not change our lives in order to come to Christ. We come to Him just as we are, and He changes our lives (John 6:37). God gives us repentance before He gives us forgiveness, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord" (Acts 3:19).

I have read the link you posted and its not speaking according to the Bible. It says:


This is true. The Bible is clear on this.


Then they haven't read James 2:14-18 which says clearly as well, "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." I don't think I have to clarify much here because its self explanatory.

They go on to say,
Man made conditions? They must be reading a different Bible to the one I'm reading.

When a rich young man inquired of Christ, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” Jesus replied, "But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:16,17). The verses that follow show clearly that Christ referred specifically to the Ten Commandments. The rich man asked "Which ones?” and Jesus replied, "You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself’ (verses 18-19). This is the same Jesus who saves us through grace by faith. Yet He said throughout His time on earth that we have to be obedient, repent and other conditions to salvation.

Why? Because being saved by grace does not free us from be obedient to the law and doing all the other conditions that Iwe've been commanded to do. Paul wrote, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" (Romans 6:1-2).

Why? Because sin is still the breaking of the law and always will be for eternity. In fact, Jesus came to magnify the law. How sis He magnify it? By the example of His life here on earth. Christ's life was that of perfect obedience to His Father (Luke 22:42, John 4:34, 5:30, 8:29, 12:49). We are to emulate Christ's example.

God gives us His grace abundantly but He also makes it very clear imo that only those who will respond in humility, sincerity, obedience and unyielding faith to Him will be saved. He will provide everything necessary for salvation to those who are willing to be saved. The only contribution we have to the plan of salvation is making the choice to accept God’s gift, there’s nothing else. Salvation is free, but we have to demonstrate our faith and sincerity through our works. This means living sanctified lives on a daily basis consistently reflecting the character of Christ through our words and actions.


I refer you to James 2 as I quoted above plus I think it is really unfortunate that so many Christians remember only one portion of the statements of Christ and reject others. They preach about accepting Jesus Christ as a Saviour but there is more to it than that. There is an active side to Christianity. Bible doctrine is about living a sinless life, about saving us from our past sinful lives, keeping the ten commandments and doing God's will and a certain working out of our own salvation.

Matthew 7:21, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."

Philippians 2:12, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;"



They and you don't get it. If anyone is trying to do anything in their own human will power they will fail miserably of course. The Bible makes that point very clear. Its Christ's power in us that enables us to do what He commands of us. We are to come to Christ, accept His free gift of Salvation through faith, surrender our wills to His and He will transform us from the inside out.

John 15:5, “He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.”

2 Corinthians 2:14, “Thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ.”

Philippians 4:13, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."


Your doctrine is not biblical, its man-made and it ignores what the Bible says we should do to get salvation.

John 15:14, “You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.”

Hebrews 5:9, “He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.”
 

phipps

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Judgment is not taught in many Churches

In many Christian churches, the doctrine of the judgment and what we are judged by has disappeared. Even though worshippers may mouth the words of the ancient creed—“He [Christ] comes to judge the quick and the dead”—the idea no longer has meaning in their experience. There are Christians however, who retain this biblical truth as a vital component of their theology because its comes directly from the Word of God. They see their message pictured in the three angels of Revelation, who go to all the world with the proclamation:

“Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water” (Revelation 14:7).
 

phipps

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Won't listen to it because everything you've posted thus far is not biblical. It even completely rejects actual scripture that clearly tells us what to do to be saved. We should not reject entire parts of the Bible because they contradict our doctrine.
 
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phipps

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Christians who want to know God's true doctrine should not fall for the lie that Christians are never to talk about good works because that makes them legalists. The Bible is filled with apostles and prophets talking about how important good works are in this world. It’s not a sin to do good—it’s not wrong to stop sinning. “Likewise, the good works of some are clearly evident, and those that are otherwise cannot be hidden” (1 Timothy 5:25). This passage shows us that the works of the saved are evident because they are good. You’ll know a saved person by their fruit! 1 Timothy 6:18 reiterates, “Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share."
 

Lyfe

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Please explain... I see this debate on here constantly and people negating what @phipps is stating. Reading through this thread, I'm also reminded that he's not American, which may explain why he has a different, albeit, healthier perspective on "faith vs. works" and why the US is in the condition it is today.
The law tells us to love our neighbor and God. Christ showed us example how to acctually do that. There are many people who point back to the law yet arent acctually doing what Christ did. In fact allot of people just want the law to remain as purely the letter and be anything, but serving others out of love, because if life is measured by how we serve others out of love(and how much time in our day is spent being a servant to someone else) then it starts to reprove people even more of a life of self centeredness.

Christ proclaimed the gospel. He went up to a mountain top and prayed all night and made intercession for others. He ministered and gave to the poor, destitute, and homeless. He comforted those who were lowly and mourned. He put emphasis on visiting the orphans and widows in their distress. He encouraged freely giving. Love is the fulfillment of the law and these were the examples he gave. If this isnt our understanding of the law and faith vs works then we maintain a religious or legalistic mindset of the law that focuses on our own sin rather than serving others. There are allot of religious people who keep the sabbath and dietary laws and wont indulge the sins of the flesh, but when it comes to serving and living for others as Christ did then they become silent

if they arent doing the other works I mentioned then its probably, becsuse they dont acctually understand the law as Christ and Paul revealed it. Its like I said allot of religious people will keep the sabbath and dietary laws and wont indulge the sins of the flesh, yet still none of these things even really capture the essence of Christs ministry. Allot of people will measure themselves by the law, yet they wont measure themselves by Christ and what he did even though he is the true standard(the reality of the law). I am just merely pointing out truths we all need to be aware of.

The country isnt the way it is for ignorance of the law. People who go to church and even agnostics and atheists grasp the ten commandments. Allot of people wont even bear false witness, steal, commit adultery and etc, because they know these things are wrong.

People innately know the law and commandments. The country is the way it is, because most are simply lost sinners that need to be born again. Even most churchgoers have never been born again to begin with.
 

Jimmy Onions

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Won't listen to it because everything you've posted thus far is not biblical. It even completely rejects actual scripture that clearly tells us what to do to be saved. We should not reject entire parts of the Bible because they contradict your doctrine.
You won't listen to it because it adresses every single point you made and you seem to be afraid of the truth. God bless!
 

Maldarker

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The law tells us to love our neighbor and God. Christ showed us example how to acctually do that. There are many people who point back to the law yet arent acctually doing what Christ did. In fact allot of people just want the law to remain as purely the letter and be anything, but serving others out of love, because if life is measured by how we serve others out of love(and how much time in our day is spent being a servant to someone else) then it starts to reprove people even more of a life of self centeredness.

Christ proclaimed the gospel. He went up to a mountain top and prayed all night and made intercession for others. He ministered and gave to the poor, destitute, and homeless. He comforted those who were lowly and mourned. He put emphasis on visiting the orphans and widows in their distress. He encouraged freely giving. Love is the fulfillment of the law and these were the examples he gave. If this isnt our understanding of the law and faith vs works then we maintain a religious or legalistic mindset of the law that focuses on our own sin rather than serving others. There are allot of religious people who keep the sabbath and dietary laws and wont indulge the sins of the flesh, but when it comes to serving and living for others as Christ did then they become silent

if they arent doing the other works I mentioned then its probably, becsuse they dont acctually understand the law as Christ and Paul revealed it. Its like I said allot of religious people will keep the sabbath and dietary laws and wont indulge the sins of the flesh, yet still none of these things even really capture the essence of Christs ministry. Allot of people will measure themselves by the law, yet they wont measure themselves by Christ and what he did even though he is the true standard(the reality of the law). I am just merely pointing out truths we all need to be aware of.

The country isnt the way it is for ignorance of the law. People who go to church and even agnostics and atheists grasp the ten commandments. Allot of people wont even bear false witness, steal, commit adultery and etc, because they know these things are wrong.

People innately know the law and commandments. The country is the way it is, because most are simply lost sinners that need to be born again. Even most churchgoers have never been born again to begin with.
Most that profess are stuck in the law works to salvation road which makes a very miserable person.
 

phipps

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You won't listen to it because it adresses every single point you made and you seem to be afraid of the truth. God bless!
I am never afraid of God's truth even that that is sombre and uncomfortable like the subject of this thread. I want to know it but its got to be in line with God's Word. Here, let me post the conditions to salvation and you let me know if these are mentioned in that sermon you posted.

Conditions to being saved.

- we have to be converted;

Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord."


- Repent and confess our sins;

Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord."

1 John 1:9, "
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Proverbs 28:13, "He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy."


- Love God;

1 John 4:19, "We love Him because He first loved us."

1 Corinthians 13:13, "And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

1 John 4:16, "And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him."

1 Corinthians 16:14, "Let all that you do be done with love."

- Have
faith;

Hebrews 11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

2 Corinthians 5:7, "For we walk by faith, not by sight."

James 1:6, "But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind."

1 Corinthians 16:13, "Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong."


- we have to be baptised by water and the Holy spirit;

John 3:5, "Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 28:19-20, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Galatians 3:26-27, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

- lead a committed Christian life
where we study the Word of God and pray daily, go to Church etc;

Galatians 2:20, "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Hebrews 4:12, "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

Luke 4:16, "So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read."

- Last but not least, obedience;

I've posted so much scripture on this but I'll repost some of it here again.

Matthew 19:18-19, ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

John 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

John 14:21, "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

1 John 2:4, "He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."


Philippians 2:12, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;"

Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."


Faith and Works
James 2:8-12, "If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty."


Faith Without Works Is Dead, James 2:14-26
14"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by [g]my works.

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Good works, done out of love, are evidence that we have been saved by amazing grace. "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works" (Titus 2:11-14).


If this is what is being taught along with being saved by grace through faith I will listen to the sermon because it will be according to biblical doctrine. If they ignore these truths above and more, they are wrong and its a false doctrine. That is the sincere truth of God.
 
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Lyfe

Star
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
3,639
Most that profess are stuck in the law works to salvation road which makes a very miserable person.
Everything we become after salvation and being ransomed by Christ is performed by God. We are led to his word by the spirit. We are convicted of sin by the spirit. We hate sin by a work of the spirit and being given a heart of flesh. We are able to love from a heart of flesh and fruit of the spirit by the spirit. Even the desires we have to obey and live for God is, because he has made himself known to us by and through the spirit. Even if we go astray God corrects us as children. Most people who claim to be Christian dont even get corrected by God or are grieved by their sin, because they have never been born again and adopted into Gods family to begin with. These are those without, the sinners and ungodly who the law is for as a schoolmaster. They need to get saved and born again. They arent even Christians, biblically speaking, because a Christian is someone who has been sealed by Gods spirit. If we are truly saved and been converted though we have the spirit and God is our father. People think God will just let his children do as they please and live out the remainder of their life in the world and God wont do anything, but such people fail to comprehend that God is a father. This is what biblical salvation is. All we are called to do beforehand is acknowledge our guilt and turn to Christ for redemeption. Repent and believe the gospel. Now I do believe in repentance as prerequisite for salvation. Paul wrote a very straightforward epistle to the Corinthians telling them that so and so would not inherit the kingdom of God, but in his second later he acknowledged their repentance(as a result of thr conviction of the first) and told them that Godly sorrow leads to repentance that leads to life. If we truly go to God in repentance and acknowledge our guilt and turn to Christ and ask him to save us then he will, but these are the only things required of us to get saved and anything afterward is purely God working in us and through us by the spirit. We can't maintain our salvation through any sort of effort. You are right though when you said that people who believe they have to keep the law in order to be saved are miserable. I used to believe this way and I could never rest in Christ. I was trying to maintain or hold unto my salvation by works and my motivations could never be right before God. I wasnt being led by the spirit I was being led by anxiety and I always struggled to see God as a loving father, because of it.
 

Maldarker

Star
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
2,064
Everything we become after salvation and being ransomed by Christ is performed by God. We are led to his word by the spirit. We are convicted of sin by the spirit. We hate sin by a work of the spirit and being given a heart of flesh. We are able to love from a heart of flesh and fruit of the spirit by the spirit. Even the desires we have to obey and live for God is, because he has made himself known to us by and through the spirit. Even if we go astray God corrects us as children. Most people who claim to be Christian dont even get corrected by God or are grieved by their sin, because they have never been born again and adopted into Gods family to begin with. These are those without, the sinners and ungodly who the law is for as a schoolmaster. They need to get saved and born again. They arent even Christians, biblically speaking, because a Christian is someone who has been sealed by Gods spirit. If we are truly saved and been converted though we have the spirit and God is our father. People think God will just let his children do as they please and live out the remainder of their life in the world and God wont do anything, but such people fail to comprehend that God is a father. This is what biblical salvation is. All we are called to do beforehand is acknowledge our guilt and turn to Christ for redemeption. Repent and believe the gospel. Now I do believe in repentance as prerequisite for salvation. Paul wrote a very straightforward epistle to the Corinthians telling them that so and so would not inherit the kingdom of God, but in his second later he acknowledged their repentance(as a result of thr conviction of the first) and told them that Godly sorrow leads to repentance that leads to life. If we truly go to God in repentance and acknowledge our guilt and turn to Christ and ask him to save us then he will, but these are the only things required of us to get saved and anything afterward is purely God working in us and through us by the spirit. We can't maintain our salvation through any sort of effort. You are right though when you said that people who believe they have to keep the law in order to be saved are miserable. I used to believe this way and I could never rest in Christ. I was trying to maintain or hold unto my salvation by works and my motivations could never be right before God. I wasnt being led by the spirit I was being led by anxiety and I always struggled to see God as a loving father, because of it.
Agreed! However those that are saved sincerely still get yoked with the doctorine of works to maintain their salvation. Its a vicsious cycle that makes a very miserable person.
 

Jimmy Onions

Rookie
Joined
Dec 12, 2021
Messages
26
I am never afraid of God's truth even that that is sombre and uncomfortable like the subject of this thread. I want to know it but its got to be in line with God's Word. Here, let me post the conditions to salvation and you let me know if these are mentioned in that sermon you posted.

Conditions to being saved.

-
we have to be converted;

Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord."


- Repent and confess our sins;

Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord."

1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Proverbs 28:13, "He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy."


- Love God;

1 John 4:19, "We love Him because He first loved us."

1 Corinthians 13:13, "And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

1 John 4:16, "And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him."

1 Corinthians 16:14, "Let all that you do be done with love."

- Have
faith;

Hebrews 11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

2 Corinthians 5:7, "For we walk by faith, not by sight."

James 1:6, "But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind."

1 Corinthians 16:13, "Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong."


- we have to be baptised by water and the Holy spirit;

John 3:5, "Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 28:19-20, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Galatians 3:26-27, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

- lead a committed Christian life
where we study the Word of God and pray daily, go to Church etc;

Galatians 2:20, "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Hebrews 4:12, "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

Luke 4:16, "So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read."

- Last but not least, obedience;

I've posted so much scripture on this but I'll repost some of it here again.

Matthew 19:18-19, ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

John 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

John 14:21, "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

1 John 2:4, "He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Philippians 2:12, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;"

Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."


Faith and Works
James 2:8-12, "If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty."

Faith Without Works Is Dead, James 2:14-26

14"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by [g]my works.

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.

24 You see then tha
I am never afraid of God's truth even that that is sombre and uncomfortable like the subject of this thread. I want to know it but its got to be in line with God's Word. Here, let me post the conditions to salvation and you let me know if these are mentioned in that sermon you posted.

Conditions to being saved.

-
we have to be converted;

Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord."


- Repent and confess our sins;

Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord."

1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Proverbs 28:13, "He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy."


- Love God;

1 John 4:19, "We love Him because He first loved us."

1 Corinthians 13:13, "And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

1 John 4:16, "And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him."

1 Corinthians 16:14, "Let all that you do be done with love."

- Have
faith;

Hebrews 11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

2 Corinthians 5:7, "For we walk by faith, not by sight."

James 1:6, "But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind."

1 Corinthians 16:13, "Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong."


- we have to be baptised by water and the Holy spirit;

John 3:5, "Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 28:19-20, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Galatians 3:26-27, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

- lead a committed Christian life
where we study the Word of God and pray daily, go to Church etc;

Galatians 2:20, "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Hebrews 4:12, "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

Luke 4:16, "So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read."

- Last but not least, obedience;

I've posted so much scripture on this but I'll repost some of it here again.

Matthew 19:18-19, ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

John 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

John 14:21, "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

1 John 2:4, "He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Philippians 2:12, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;"

Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."


Faith and Works
James 2:8-12, "If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty."

Faith Without Works Is Dead, James 2:14-26

14"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by [g]my works.

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Good works, done out of love, are evidence that we have been saved by amazing grace. "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works" (Titus 2:11-14).


If this is what is being taught along with being saved by grace through faith I will listen to the sermon because it will be according to biblical doctrine. If they ignore these truths above and more, they are wrong and its a false doctrine. That is the sincere truth of God.
t a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Good works, done out of love, are evidence that we have been saved by amazing grace. "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works" (Titus 2:11-14).


If this is what is being taught along with being saved by grace through faith I will listen to the sermon because it will be according to biblical doctrine. If they ignore these truths above and more, they are wrong and its a false doctrine. That is the sincere truth of God.
Except "repent and be converted", which means "believe and receive the Holy Spirit", literally every single example you have shown pertains to fellowship, and not salvation, which are completely separate issues.

Also, you gave 4 "baptism" quotes, neither of which pertains to water baptism, but spiritual one. There are 6 ways of baptism in the BIble.

James 2 is a call to already saved people to have an active faith, it has nothing to do with salvation unto eternal life.

You literally took every single moral obligation in the Bible and made it into a salvation issue.

You said that Jesus transforms us into completely sinless people.

Are you even aware of what you're saying? Are you sinless? Are you aware that the best person that ever lived cannot keep a fraction of Bible rules and that every sinner has thousands of sins per day? If you don't, you either think too highly of yourself or don't realize how bad you really are.

I could also paste tons of quotes like 1 Cor 5, Hebrews 12:6, Romans 4:5 etc. that completely contradict you statements, but that is not the point. We can go back and forth forever. The point is that you completely misunderstand Christianity in general.

We are sinners. And we are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.
Christ died on the cross, was buried, and rose again on the third day, paying all the sins of the world.
The moment we believe, we receive the Holy Spirit and we have (means right now) eternal life.
Jesus promised to never leave us or forsake us.
We are not under law, but under grace. We grow in fellowship by focusing on Grace, not law. By resting in finished work of Christ. And that way, we do the works that God ordained for us.
If we disobey God, we get chastened. We lose rewards. We miss out on life. However, our old nature is still here. And it will never change.
God wants us to focus on our new nature. His yoke is easy.
The law was never meant to be kept, by law is the knowledge of sin. It is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.


I explain to you how you get saved. I explain that there are consequences for living an obedient or disobedient life, both in this life and the next.
And yet, people fully understand the truth that is the free grace and yet, deny it.

I know that I'm going to Heaven because Christ died for my sins and I put my faith in His finished work 3 years ago. Not because of anything I do. Or did, or will do.

If you wan't to say that it is false, you can. If you believe that you stopped sinning completely, good luck. If you think you are perfect as the Father in Heaven, good luck. I hope that you sold all your posessions, and that you wash the feet of your brothers in faith as well. I see, however, that you use internet on a device made in 3rd world country by a 12 year old in sweatshop. I don't know you will justify that. I could go on for ages, but I'm gonna stop here.

And if you're still not convinced, then please, tell me: what is the way of salvation? And give me the quotes. Of course, if you want.

Edit: sorry, I'm new here and just checked out you other posts, didn't realize that you're trolling with the lordship doctrine here for years. Taking away the simplicity that is in Christ. I bit like a true newbie. God bless!

For anyone else, if you wonder how to walk in the faith, check out:
 
Last edited:

Lyfe

Star
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
3,639
Except "repent and be converted", which means "believe and receive the Holy Spirit", literally every single example you have shown pertains to fellowship, and not salvation, which are completely separate issues.

Also, you gave 4 "baptism" quotes, neither of which pertains to water baptism, but spiritual one. There are 6 ways of baptism in the BIble.

James 2 is a call to already saved people to have an active faith, it has nothing to do with salvation unto eternal life.

You literally took every single moral obligation in the Bible and made it into a salvation issue.

You said that Jesus transforms us into completely sinless people.

Are you even aware of what you're saying? Are you sinless? Are you aware that the best person that ever lived cannot keep a fraction of Bible rules and that every sinner has thousands of sins per day? If you don't, you either think too highly of yourself or don't realize how bad you really are.

I could also paste tons of quotes like 1 Cor 5, Hebrews 12:6, Romans 4:5 etc. that completely contradict you statements, but that is not the point. We can go back and forth forever. The point is that you completely misunderstand Christianity in general.

We are sinners. And we are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.
Christ died on the cross, was buried, and rose again on the third day, paying all the sins of the world.
The moment we believe, we receive the Holy Spirit and we have (means right now) eternal life.
Jesus promised to never leave us or forsake us.
We are not under law, but under grace. We grow in fellowship by focusing on Grace, not law. By resting in finished work of Christ. And that way, we do the works that God ordained for us.
If we disobey God, we get chastened. We lose rewards. We miss out on life. However, our old nature is still here. And it will never change.
God wants us to focus on our new nature. His yoke is easy.

I explain to you how you get saved. I explain that there are consequences for living an obedient or disobedient life, both in this life and the next.
And yet, people fully understand the truth that is the free grace and yet, deny it.

I know that I'm going to Heaven because Christ died for my sins and I put my faith in His finished work 3 years ago. Not because of anything I do. Or did, or will do.

If you wan't to say that it is false, you can. If you believe that you stopped sinning completely, good luck. If you think you are perfect as the Father in Heaven, good luck. I hope that you sold all your posessions, and that you wash the feet of your brothers in faith as well. I see, however, that you use internet on a device made in 3rd world country by a 12 year old in sweatshop. I don't know you will justify that. I could go on for ages, but I'm gonna stop here.

And if you're still not convinced, then please, tell me: what is the way of salvation? And give me the quotes. Of course, if you want.
Are you quoting me or phipps?
 
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,046
Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law, but that's exactly what the chief priests thought he was doing and put him to death for. It was only that the pharisees understood the law in a very hypocritical and fanatical way. They thought it was more important to not touch a Samaritan for example, than to be a good neighbor and help him. Because they thought they'd be unclean. They followed the law with their actions, but inside were far from God.

So it's true that one isn't saved by following the law the way they did. But the principal law is to love God with the entirety of one's being. Which clearly is salvific. That's the law that saves if you follow it, and all other laws follow from it, and without that law all the others are meaningless. What does it matter if you don't do xyz on Sunday if you don't truly love God. And if you truly love God, Sunday is de facto sanctified. So yeah you are saved by the grace of God, and that grace leads to a righteous life. If you are sinning its because you love of God isn't perfect and it's that that you should ammend, not some petty rule
 

Jimmy Onions

Rookie
Joined
Dec 12, 2021
Messages
26
...and that grace leads to a righteous life.
Not necessarily. Grace lead to a "righteous" life IF we walk in the Spirit. Corinthians are the example of people who were saved, yet completely carnal. And that leads to consequences. "Sowing and reaping".

And we are saved by BELIEVING the Gospel, not by loving God.

We SHOULD love God, but NOT to be saved. It's a matter of fellowship, not salvation. That is what 98% of professing Christians mix and fail to understand.

Faith alone means without works of the law (the highest moral standard), which means irrelevant how you live prior, in the moment, or after salvation.

Today's churches implemented the babylonian concept of works salvation, and they mastered the craft of million and one ways to smuggle works into the Gospel.

"Yeah, but if you're truly saved, you MUST have works!" (Backloaded works) And no, James 2 is not about eternal life.

"You need to turn from sins to be saved! That's what repentance means!" Hint: it doesn't. (Frontloaded works)

"Not your works, but of Jesus! You need to abide! And if you don't you get cut off which means hell!' (backloaded with a twist!)

If you wonder about the one world religion of the Antichrist, it's already here. It's faith in yourself and your own righteousness, instead of righteousness of Christ. And it's in common to ALL world religions.
 
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,046
Not necessarily. Grace lead to a "righteous" life IF we walk in the Spirit. Corinthians are the example of people who were saved, yet completely carnal. And that leads to consequences. "Sowing and reaping".

And we are saved by BELIEVING the Gospel, not by loving God.

We SHOULD love God, but NOT to be saved. It's a matter of fellowship, not salvation. That is what 98% of professing Christians mix and fail to understand.

Faith alone means without works of the law (the highest moral standard), which means irrelevant how you live prior, in the moment, or after salvation.

Today's churches implemented the babylonian concept of works salvation, and they mastered the craft of million and one ways to smuggle works into the Gospel.

"Yeah, but if you're truly saved, you MUST have works!" (Backloaded works) And no, James 2 is not about eternal life.

"You need to turn from sins to be saved! That's what repentance means!" Hint: it doesn't. (Frontloaded works)

"Not your works, but of Jesus! You need to abide! And if you don't you get cut off which means hell!' (backloaded with a twist!)

If you wonder about the one world religion of the Antichrist, it's already here. It's faith in yourself and your own righteousness, instead of righteousness of Christ. And it's in common to ALL world religions.
But the letter to the Corinthians is Paul's exortatipn to them to leave carnal passions.

Saying your actions after you 'reach salvation' are irrelevant is absurd. Why would Jesus say you knownthem by their fruits ie actions. That's just an excuse for someone to not renounce their sins.

"Be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect" Jesus Christ

I'll leave that for you to hopefully think about
 
Joined
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A question to think about based on that logic. Lucifer was the highest angel in heaven and fell into hell due to the sin of pride, where he remains today. If salvation was such a simple matter, how is that possible? And why would his actions lead him to hell, if he was already saved and safe in the heavens? This simple scenario completely refutes Mr Onions perspective, respectfully
 

Jimmy Onions

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A question to think about based on that logic. Lucifer was the highest angel in heaven and fell into hell due to the sin of pride, where he remains today. If salvation was such a simple matter, how is that possible? And why would his actions lead him to hell, if he was already saved and safe in the heavens? This simple scenario completely refutes Mr Onions perspective, respectfully
First of all, Christ died for all people, not the devil and the fallen angels. The falling away from Heaven was one time event that is not connected to our realm. Devil cannot be saved.

And regarding your first post, the Corinthians were carnal, so Paul warns them that there are consequences for disobedience to God. Chastening by God or even physical death (1 Cor 5).
However, salvation is free, it's a gift. You cannot earn it by works and you cannot lose it by works.

You shall know them by their fruits means you shall know false teachers by their doctrine. It doesn't mean that you shall know whether someone is saved by the way someone lives. There are many nice people among JW's, Catholics and mormons. It doesn't mean they're saved.
 
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