Why is Christ the only hope for mankind?

Maldarker

Star
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
2,064
Yeah not thinking a book given to a delusional man in a cave is one i'm going to follow. There is no reconciliaton in it between GOD & man as the GOSPEL message state that it does.
If you used logic you would realize that you need a saviour that's where you should first start. (BTW pride usually is what stops this)

BTW have never said i hate islam you like to generalize alot don't you. That whole tirade really doesn't point to what i wrote about your curse test or what ever you want to call it. I said i would take that challenge because i know its BS and you give me nothing but a tirade about quran this and that. What did i say prior in my message....(hold on let me put it in here: "

I do understand it. Thank you very much. I am 100% positive of the truth of CHRIST & GOD's plan for salvation. I don't have a problem with the curse. If your 100% postive your correct then good for you. Your Quran verse mean nothing to me btw its a waste of your typing. I don't listen to a guy that listened to a seducing spirit that was warned against having a "different" GOSPEL.

If it matters to you then read galatians that explains it well of what happens when some one turns from the gospel." )


You just had to get the last word-post message whatever in didn't you. Sure that you didn't look at galatians did you but yet here you are spouting about something that i just said again look up at the bold text what does it say come on not hard is it. So if you get that figured out then....

God bless
 
Last edited:

Daze

Superstar
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
5,824
Yeah not thinking a book given to a delusional man in a cave is one i'm going to follow. There is no reconciliaton in it between GOD & man as the GOSPEL message state that it does.
If you used logic you would realize that you need a saviour that's where you should first start. (BTW pride usually is what stops this)

BTW have never said i hate islam you like to generalize alot don't you. That whole tirade really doesn't point to what i wrote about your curse test or what ever you want to call it. I said i would take that challenge because i know its BS and you give me nothing but a tirade about quran this and that. What did i say prior in my message....(hold on let me put it in here: "

I do understand it. Thank you very much. I am 100% positive of the truth of CHRIST & GOD's plan for salvation. I don't have a problem with the curse. If your 100% postive your correct then good for you. Your Quran verse mean nothing to me btw its a waste of your typing. I don't listen to a guy that listened to a seducing spirit that was warned against having a "different" GOSPEL.

If it matters to you then read galatians that explains it well of what happens when some one turns from the gospel." )


You just had to get the last word-post message whatever in didn't you. Sure that you didn't look at galatians did you but yet here you are spouting about something that i just said again look up at the bold text what does it say come on not hard is it. So if you get that figured out then....

God bless
Do you not think this back and forth is absolutely pointless? I surely do. I mean there's really no rebuttal to my last post, such as the Quran being unique and your book getting new words every few years. That is, unless you ignore it. Such as you have done and Lord knows I am tired of this.

We agree on one thing, it is a waste to share Quran with a heart the Almighty himself has locked.

The truth awaits us both when we meet the angel of death. You can find it then.
 

Maldarker

Star
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
2,064
Do you not think this back and forth is absolutely pointless? I surely do. I mean there's really no rebuttal to my last post, such as the Quran being unique and your book getting new words every few years. That is, unless you ignore it. Such as you have done and Lord knows I am tired of this.

We agree on one thing, it is a waste to share Quran with a heart the Almighty himself has locked.

The truth awaits us both when we meet the angel of death. You can find it then.
No rebuttal because even when you see evidence that the scriptures are what they where you will call foul even when shown its not. The quran has truth as do many of the other religions very similar to the lie the serpent said to eve had some truth to it didn't it and see where that got us.

And for me the LORD has said that with out HIM your just a dead man walking. No hope for salvation. Worse is you say my heart is locked hmm no it was hard just like all those named in the bible that had hardend hearts but guess what Ezekiel 36:26 only the living GOD can do that.

Already know what truth awaits me do you? You 100 1000% sure? I am. I don't fear death can you say that?

GOD BLESS.
 

Daze

Superstar
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
5,824
No rebuttal because even when you see evidence that the scriptures are what they where you will call foul even when shown its not. The quran has truth as do many of the other religions very similar to the lie the serpent said to eve had some truth to it didn't it and see where that got us.

And for me the LORD has said that with out HIM your just a dead man walking. No hope for salvation. Worse is you say my heart is locked hmm no it was hard just like all those named in the bible that had hardend hearts but guess what Ezekiel 36:26 only the living GOD can do that.

Already know what truth awaits me do you? You 100 1000% sure? I am. I don't fear death can you say that?

GOD BLESS.
The only evidence we have is that the Bible has been changed. While many verses remain that reject the divinity of Jesus, which you also ignore.

The Quran has truth because its from the Almighty. We use the Quran to verify the Bible, such as usury being forbidden, even to the Jews, which the Bible says today is permissible. Really think God would allow the rich to profit off of the poor? Because this is what usury is.

The Quran is from the God of Abraham and you can deny this until your grave, it really doesn't change anything.

Problem is you confuse the LORD with his prophet. his servant just as acts 3:13 highlights.

Already know what truth awaits me do you? You 100 1000% sure? I am.
Absolutely. As I've mentioned time and time again the Quran is the word of the Creator verbatim. A single letter has not been changed in 1400 years and this is a miracle in itself.

Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian (15:9 Quran)


Reject or accept, it changes nothing. While the Quran warns against the worship of Jesus and says the disbelievers amongst the people of the book will be in hell. While you have accepted a pagan doctrine of a 3 in 1 god. 3 names, 3 wills, 3 distinct personalities.

Look, Islam has the proofs, over and over. You refuse to acknowledge a single one of them and hang on to your blind belief where your own book rejects your core beliefs.

What do you expect really? Your religion is complete and total indoctrination. It has to be because things your book forbids such as the consumption of pork you engage in freely. A very pick and choose kind of religion is what you have, but you partake in the greatest sin, breaking the first commandment, assigning partners with the Almighty and worshiping his prophets along side him.

How many times do we have to do this back and forth Maldarker?

How many times when clearly nothing is gained on either side?

Wait for judgement day, I'm perfectly happy with this. Why aren't you? There is no doubt there is no god But God and Jesus was his servant and messenger, exactly like your book dictates in Acts 3:13...

but shove those fingers in them ears.
 

Maldarker

Star
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
2,064
The only evidence we have is that the Bible has been changed. While many verses remain that reject the divinity of Jesus, which you also ignore.

The Quran has truth because its from the Almighty. We use the Quran to verify the Bible, such as usury being forbidden, even to the Jews, which the Bible says today is permissible. Really think God would allow the rich to profit off of the poor? Because this is what usury is.

The Quran is from the God of Abraham and you can deny this until your grave, it really doesn't change anything.

Problem is you confuse the LORD with his prophet. his servant just as acts 3:13 highlights.



Absolutely. As I've mentioned time and time again the Quran is the word of the Creator verbatim. A single letter has not been changed in 1400 years and this is a miracle in itself.

Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian (15:9 Quran)

Reject or accept, it changes nothing. While the Quran warns against the worship of Jesus and says the disbelievers amongst the people of the book will be in hell. While you have accepted a pagan doctrine of a 3 in 1 god. 3 names, 3 wills, 3 distinct personalities.

Look, Islam has the proofs, over and over. You refuse to acknowledge a single one of them and hang on to your blind belief where your own book rejects your core beliefs.

What do you expect really? Your religion is complete and total indoctrination. It has to be because things your book forbids such as the consumption of pork you engage in freely. A very pick and choose kind of religion is what you have, but you partake in the greatest sin, breaking the first commandment, assigning partners with the Almighty and worshiping his prophets along side him.

How many times do we have to do this back and forth Maldarker?

How many times when clearly nothing is gained on either side?

Wait for judgement day, I'm perfectly happy with this. Why aren't you? There is no doubt there is no god But God and Jesus was his servant and messenger, exactly like your book dictates in Acts 3:13...

but shove those fingers in them ears.
Wow you like to hear yourself don't you. IDK how many times you going to keep bloviating?

I told you already my view and belief you have an issue with it. I don't. I know your wrong but free will and all. Hard for one that leaves the faith to come back to it.

Wait for judgement i said that looong time ago when you "cursed or test" depends on which one you seem to want to insert.

You've accepted a satanic doctorine given to a dude in a cave - warning against this was given but as of the things of satan well they do fit into this world. Think on that. Who's eyes are shut and ears closed
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Messages
1,829
The only evidence we have is that the Bible has been changed.
Actually, is it correct to say it has been changed? Does the Bible have an unchanged essence as a book? For example, the Quran was memorized daily by the people of the time, because it was commanded to be memorized. Was the Bible memorized daily in this way? The Bible is a history book written after Jesus, isn't it? That's why words don't sound divine. The apostles wrote what they remembered of the true words. But has there ever been a book of the true words of god for the bible?

(I don't know, I'm trying to understand)
 

Daze

Superstar
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
5,824
Wow you like to hear yourself don't you. IDK how many times you going to keep bloviating?

I told you already my view and belief you have an issue with it. I don't. I know your wrong but free will and all. Hard for one that leaves the faith to come back to it.

Wait for judgement i said that looong time ago when you "cursed or test" depends on which one you seem to want to insert.

You've accepted a satanic doctorine given to a dude in a cave - warning against this was given but as of the things of satan well they do fit into this world. Think on that. Who's eyes are shut and ears closed
I am done with this, do i need to mention for a 3rd time whats the point? Well I'm not going to.
 

Daze

Superstar
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
5,824
Actually, is it correct to say it has been changed? Does the Bible have an unchanged essence as a book? For example, the Quran was memorized daily by the people of the time, because it was commanded to be memorized. Was the Bible memorized daily in this way? The Bible is a history book written after Jesus, isn't it? That's why words don't sound divine. The apostles wrote what they remembered of the true words. But has there ever been a book of the true words of god for the bible?

(I don't know, I'm trying to understand)
Well, as i have highlighted above, the Bible says Jews can lend on interest.

Do not charge your brother interest on money, food, or any other type of loan. (Duet 23:19)

You may charge a foreigner interest, but not your brother, so that the LORD your God may bless you in everything (Duet 23:20)

Do you think this is from Allah azawajal? or did mans hands insert this?

O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains [due to you] of interest, if you should be believers.And if you do not,
then be informed of a war [against you] from Allah and His Messenger. (2:278-279 Quran)

It is clear interest only benefits the rich. A mortgage is literally defined as a strangle hold. There is no way God would allow it for anyone.

Those who consume interest cannot stand [on the Day of Resurrection] except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity. (2:275 Quran)



There are many things i can cover such as the Bibles claims of Prophet Solomon worshiping idols.

Then Solomon built an illegal worship site on the hill east of Jerusalem for Chemosh (the idol of Moab) and for Molech (the idol of the Ammonites). (1 Kings 11:7)


But we know the Quran vindicates Prophet Solomon in Surah Baqarah. Its absurd to believe a prophet would worship idols anyway. Much like Prophet Lot committing incest with his daughters. Incredibly unlikely.

This is not to say the Bible has no value, but what the Quran confirms is the truth. Such as the 10 commandments. But if its not in the Quran, we don't know the source of it and must take it with a grain of salt.
 

Maldarker

Star
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
2,064
I am done with this, do i need to mention for a 3rd time whats the point? Well I'm not going to.
I know what was the point with you other then to show you have to have the last word no matter what it be.
 

Maldarker

Star
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
2,064
Well, as i have highlighted above, the Bible says Jews can lend on interest.

Do not charge your brother interest on money, food, or any other type of loan. (Duet 23:19)
You may charge a foreigner interest, but not your brother, so that the LORD your God may bless you in everything (Duet 23:20)

Do you think this is from Allah azawajal? or did mans hands insert this?

O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains [due to you] of interest, if you should be believers.And if you do not, then be informed of a war [against you] from Allah and His Messenger. (2:278-279 Quran)

It is clear interest only benefits the rich. A mortgage is literally defined as a strangle hold. There is no way God would allow it for anyone.

Those who consume interest cannot stand [on the Day of Resurrection] except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity. (2:275 Quran)


There are many things i can cover such as the Bibles claims of Prophet Solomon worshiping idols.

Then Solomon built an illegal worship site on the hill east of Jerusalem for Chemosh (the idol of Moab) and for Molech (the idol of the Ammonites). (1 Kings 11:7)

But we know the Quran vindicates Prophet Solomon in Surah Baqarah. Its absurd to believe a prophet would worship idols anyway. Much like Prophet Lot committing incest with his daughters. Incredibly unlikely.

This is not to say the Bible has no value, but what the Quran confirms is the truth. Such as the 10 commandments. But if its not in the Quran, we don't know the source of it and must take it with a grain of salt.
So your looking for a book that shows that the prophets or patriarchs such as Solomon etc are perfect no issues with life. Hmm doesn't sound real.
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us
The BIBLE shows man at his worse & best the same people are sinner & saints.
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

This is for you personally: Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, or his ear dull, that it cannot hear; but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.

just remember though you can still have hope: (THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD)

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

GOD BLESS
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Messages
1,829
Well, as i have highlighted above, the Bible says Jews can lend on interest.

Do not charge your brother interest on money, food, or any other type of loan. (Duet 23:19)
You may charge a foreigner interest, but not your brother, so that the LORD your God may bless you in everything (Duet 23:20)

Do you think this is from Allah azawajal? or did mans hands insert this?

O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains [due to you] of interest, if you should be believers.And if you do not, then be informed of a war [against you] from Allah and His Messenger. (2:278-279 Quran)

It is clear interest only benefits the rich. A mortgage is literally defined as a strangle hold. There is no way God would allow it for anyone.

Those who consume interest cannot stand [on the Day of Resurrection] except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity. (2:275 Quran)


There are many things i can cover such as the Bibles claims of Prophet Solomon worshiping idols.

Then Solomon built an illegal worship site on the hill east of Jerusalem for Chemosh (the idol of Moab) and for Molech (the idol of the Ammonites). (1 Kings 11:7)

But we know the Quran vindicates Prophet Solomon in Surah Baqarah. Its absurd to believe a prophet would worship idols anyway. Much like Prophet Lot committing incest with his daughters. Incredibly unlikely.

This is not to say the Bible has no value, but what the Quran confirms is the truth. Such as the 10 commandments. But if its not in the Quran, we don't know the source of it and must take it with a grain of salt.
I asked if there was ever an unchanged essence of the Bible as a book. When each of the verses of the Quran came, it was memorized day by day. And there is a verse that says it will be preserved until the end of the day. I guess no one had memorized the Bible at the time. And it's not written anywhere that the bible will be preserved. That is, the bible was not "changed", because there was never a memorized book. (like Quran). Right? I'm testing my reasoning.
 

Daze

Superstar
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
5,824
I asked if there was ever an unchanged essence of the Bible as a book. When each of the verses of the Quran came, it was memorized day by day. And there is a verse that says it will be preserved until the end of the day. I guess no one had memorized the Bible at the time. And it's not written anywhere that the bible will be preserved. That is, the bible was not "changed", because there was never a memorized book. (like Quran). Right? I'm testing my reasoning.
Far as i know the Bible wasn't memorized. Its not like the Quran in this sense. Jesus spoke Aramaic but the Bible was recorded into Greek and is mostly accessed in English today. I mean look at the word Allah. You and i both know its simply the Arabic word for God but plenty of people here say Allah is a false god. While these people are mostly Christians. Why i often share screenshots of the Bible in Arabic. Just no connection what so ever to the ancient languages.

As I've mentioned before the word God is largely removed from the English tongue. While you have Mashallah, inshaallah, alhamduliah and so on in Arabic.. The only time God is really mentioned in common conversations on the English tongue is when someone sneezes and they say "God bless you".

Besides, how can you memorize a book that is constantly changed? Every few years they change a word here and there. Such as this recent example, removing Yahweh and replacing it with Lord because its taboo for the Jews to speak Gods name.

 

A Freeman

Superstar
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
6,725
Well, as i have highlighted above, the Bible says Jews can lend on interest.

Do not charge your brother interest on money, food, or any other type of loan. (Duet 23:19)
You may charge a foreigner interest, but not your brother, so that the LORD your God may bless you in everything (Duet 23:20)

First, the Bible says no such thing about the "Jews". The Law was given to the Children of Jacob/Israel, aka the 12 tribes of Israel. The same children of Israel repeatedly referred to throughout the Koran/Quran.

Judah was but one of the 12 tribes, and clearly NOT the other 11. But people today, throughout both "Christianity" and "Islam", unwittingly or otherwise, continually promote the Zionist myth that the "Jews" somehow represent all of the people Israel when, in fact, the overwhelming majority of those that call themselves "Jews" aren't even Semites, much less descended from the tribe of Judah.

Secondly, if anyone actually thinks about Father's Perfect Law, instead of arrogantly assuming they know better than Father (God, the "I AM"), they would "see" (be shown) the perfect logic involved.

The Israelite nation was supposed to be a demonstration people to the rest of the world of how amazing life can be by keeping Father's Law. This is the BEGINNING of learning to do God's Will (being a true believer). In doing so, the nations 'round about Israel would see how Father blessed them (as He promises to do to those who keep His Law) and they would want those blessings too. They would first try to take what the Israelites (Believers) had by force, as humans always do, and subsequently be defeated by Father, again just as He promises to fight for those who keep His Law.

After being defeated those nations would then ask if there was any way to receive those blessings, at which time they would be told "yes, as long as you keep The Law that God gave us" (i.e. be fellow believers). And the nation of Israel (the true people Israel -- NOT the current, counterfeit-Jewish state in the Middle East) would then expand its borders to take in their law-abiding neighbours, and the process would repeat itself until the entire world became Israelites. This was to be the "grafting in of the Gentiles" (foreigners) that is spoken about throughout Scripture.

Under The Law, it is strictly prohibited to charge usury to fellow Israelites, but it is lawful to charge interest to foreigners. Why?

Deuteronomy 23:19-20
23:19 Thou shalt NOT lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:
23:20 Unto a stranger (foreigner - a non-Israelite) thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt NOT lend upon usury: that the "I AM" thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land where thou goest to possess it.

The answer is obvious, IF one studies and strives to keep God's Law, Statute, Judgments and Commandments.

As part of the perfect economic policy under The Law, every 7th year is "a year of release" and every 50th year is a "Jubilee". These are essential debt relief policies, to prevent a small group of individuals from becoming filthy rich at everyone else's expense, exactly as has happened on this planet becomes we haven't kept The Law.

For fellow Israelites (Believers) within their own nation, these policies would be followed as a matter of Law, whereas foreigners/strangers from the surrounding nations ) that traded with Iraelites might plot to take advantage of those policies, by making purchases or taking out loans from Israeiltes just before the mandatory "year of release", with the intention of acquiring Israelite lands, materials or loans for next to nothing or for free.

So Father, knowing how evil people are, included the clause in Deuteronomy 23:20 to prevent the more evil and unbelieving nations around Israel from being able to steal the land and wealth from Israel (the believers), which would defeat His loving purpose of bringing the entire world under His Perfect Law of Liberty, with everyone peacefully and lovingly sharing everything.

Again, Father's Law is PERFECT, as are ALL of His Policies, Statutes, Judgments and Commandments, just as Father Himself is PERFECT. Of course the Koran (Quran) says the same thing, addressing BELIEVERS, i.e. Israelites. The Koran also refers its readers back to The Law on ALL matters, because The Law that God gave us is the sole criterion for judging between what is right and what is wrong.

Sura 2:278-279
2:278. O ye who believe! Fear God, and give up what remains of your demand for usury (interest), if ye are indeed believers.
2:279. If ye do this not, take notice of war from God and His Messenger: but if ye turn back [from usury], ye shall have your capital sums: deal not unjustly, and ye shall not be dealt with unjustly.

If the entire world would stop being so stupid and selfish, and unite in one Brotherhood of Believers determined to keep God's Law and thus do His Will, there would be no more usury, just as there would be no more division, nor any organized religions with their silly superstitions.


This is not to say the Bible has no value, but what the Quran confirms is the truth. Such as the 10 commandments. But if its not in the Quran, we don't know the source of it and must take it with a grain of salt.
Apparently you feel you are in a position to judge God and His Law. What amazing arrogance!

The TRUTH that the Quran was sent to CONFIRM is The Law and The Gospel that you just blatantly attacked and very hypocritically claimed was "man-made".

Sura 3:3. It is He (God) Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Koran, CONFIRMING WHAT WENT BEFORE IT and He sent down The Law (of Moses) and The Gospel (of Jesus) BEFORE THIS, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down The Criterion (of Judgment between right and wrong).

Sura 5:51. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, CONFIRMING THE SCRIPTURE THAT CAME BEFORE IT, AND GUARDING IT IN SAFETY (Sura 32:23): so judge between them by what "I AM" hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires (Sura 9:107-111), diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have We prescribed The Law and The Open Way (Matt. 7:13-14). If "I AM" had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His Plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to "I AM"; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters about which ye dispute;

Sura 6:154-157
6:154. Moreover, We gave Moses The Book (The Torah), COMPLETING (Our favour) to those who would do right, and explaining ALL things IN DETAIL,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
6:155. And this (Torah) is a Book which We have revealed as a BLESSING: so follow it and be righteous, that YE may receive mercy (Sura 32:23):
6:156. Lest YE should say: "The Book (The Torah) was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by careful study:"
6:157. Or lest YE should say: "If The Book (The Torah) had only been sent down to US, we should have FOLLOWED its guidance BETTER than they (Sura 32:23)." Now then hath come unto YOU a clear (Sign) from your Lord,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY: then who could do MORE WRONG than one who rejecteth "I AM"'s Signs (and The Torah - Bible), and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our Signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.

Sura 46:12. And before this, was the Book of Moses (The Torah - The Law) as a guide and a mercy: and THIS BOOK CONFIRMS (IT - THE TORAH) IN THE ARAB TONGUE; to warn the unjust, and as Good News to those who do right.

As far as what is in The Law that God gave us and His Gospel (Good News) brought to the world through His Christ, the Koran/Quran COMMANDS us to be NOT IN DOUBT of The Law reaching us, because God Himself will ASSUREDLY guard it from corruption.

Sura 15:9-10
15:9. WE HAVE, WITHOUT DOUBT, SENT DOWN THE MESSAGE; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
15:10. We did send Apostles before thee amongst the religious sects (John 17:21; Sura 6:159) of old:

Sura 32:23. WE DID INDEED AFORETIME GIVE THE BOOK (TORAH) TO MOSES: be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,931
The Quran is protected by the Almighty. Lets use some logic for a moment.

We only have 1 Quran today, in its revealed language. 1400 years later after 10's of 1000's of people like floss have come and gone. Yet a single person has not managed to change a single letter in it.

Do you not think many would love to change the Quran like they do the Bible? Why don't they?

Look at all the people on these forums who hate Islam, take a look at all of the 100's of 1000's of Islamophobes in the world.. None of them can change a single letter in it.

Look at China publicly announcing they will write there own Quran... Have they done it? Nope, of course not because its protected by the One who put a soul into your flesh.

The Quran itself is a modern day miracle that has literally stood the test of time. 14 generations of people like Pamela Geller and David Wood have not been able to change a single letter in the Quran.

Compare this to the Bible, of which we have over 2000 today and every other year or so they change things. A word here, a word there, what difference does it make right?

Yet even what remains of the truth in the Bible, such as pork being forbidden, is outright ignored.


To be blunt, blind faith will put you into eternal torment.

Then again God guides whomever he wills.

Peace.
The Islamic polemic against the Bible is based on 19th Century (Jesuit inspired) “Higher Criticism”.

The problem for that position is that the assumptions on which it is based are crumbling fast.

 

elsbet

Superstar
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
5,122
Red...
I think you will enjoy this one... I did.


"... that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow" Philippians 2:10
"... including Bart Ehrman's."​
Elsbet 6:12 pm

The Strangest Moment of My Teaching Career
Bart Ehrman | erhmanblog.org

QUESTION (AUDIENCE)
As you teach your students the material, how do you handle those students with an evangelical or fundamentalist background that refuse to accept your findings?

RESPONSE (EHRMAN)
This is a great question, and I was all set to answer it directly, when it suddenly brought to mind a *related* question that I’ll address first.

(I’ll save this specific question to answer in a later post.) This other question is whether I’ve ever had parents of students from evangelical or fundamentalist background call me to complain about what I was teaching their children. That must happen a lot, right?

As it turns out, the answer is no. It never happens. Since I started teaching in 1984, I have never ever had a parent call to complain about what I teach — or about misleading their child, or promoting the doctrines of Satan, or anything else. Never. That seems weird, even to me, but it’s true.

In fact, in all these years I’ve only had one call from a concerned parent. And it led to the weirdest moment of my career.

It was about 25 years ago. It was the Spring semester, and I had been teaching my Introduction to the New Testament course with about 350 students. I had six teaching assistants. I would lecture to the class twice a week on Mondays and Wednesdays, and then on Fridays each teaching assistant would lead a small group discussion with their “recitations”: the TA’s all had three recitations that met for an hour each, with about about twenty students per recitation. The TAs were each responsible for doing the grading for their sixty students – midterm, final exam, weekly papers, and so on.

. We had just finished the semester and posted the grades, and I got a distressed call from the mother of one of my students, a woman that I didn’t know (I hardly knew anyone in the class, since there were 350 of them and only one of me). This mother had a thick Western North Carolina accent, and said “Dr. Ehrman, I just want to talk to you about my daughter in your course” (you have to imagine this with the accent).

“My daughter just received her grade, and she failed your course. And that means she’s going to flunk out of college. Dr. Ehrman, I’ve been askin’ Jesus that you would change her grade so she can pass.”

I told her I was sorry to hear that her daughter hadn’t passed the class, but I couldn’t simply change a grade because a parent would like me to; I couldn’t even change it if I myself wanted to. It wouldn’t be fair to any of the other students or to the school itself. I told her I wished I could. And she said, “Dr. Ehrman, I’m just prayin’ to Jesus that you will reconsider and change her grade.”

We talked for a bit and it was a very sad situation indeed. This middle aged woman ran a road side vegetable stand in western North Carolina for a living. She had saved up her entire life to afford to send her daughter to college, and now, because she had failed the class she would be dismissed, no college degree.

My heart sank when I heard the tale, and I asked the woman to wait a second while I looked up the grades her daughter had gotten throughout the semester just to see what the deal was. I got out the grading sheets, and saw that all together her daughter had received a final grade of 56 for the class. She needed a 60 to get a D- and pass.

And so I got back on the phone and told her mother what the situation was, and repeated that I was very sorry but I couldn’t simply add four points because I wanted to do so. And she repeated, “Dr. Ehrman, I’m just praying to Jesus that you will see it in her heart to change her grade. It would mean so much to me and would allow her to stay in college.” But I felt that there was nothing I could do, and told her I was very sorry.

It sounds harsh, but at the time, I didn’t see a legitimate way out. Everyone wants to pass, of course, and every parent wants the best for their child. Earning a college degree is very, very hard for some students, and some simply aren’t cut out for it. For the system to work, there have to be standards, and if everyone would pass simply by showing up, that’s not fair to other students who do all the work and put in the hours and … and so on. Not even prayers to Jesus could change that.

I was a bit upset about the whole thing, but didn’t see a legitimate solution. I decided at least to look into it a bit more, to see what the fuller picture was with the student’s grades – what she got on her weekly papers (worth 30% of the grade), what she got on her midterm (another 30%), and on her final exam (40%), to see if I could figure out exactly what the problems had been.

And something occurred to me. The teaching assistant this student had had was one of my best – really bright and destined to be a contributing New Testament scholar. But he wasn’t very good at math. And so I re-crunched the numbers he himself had provided for the student on his grading sheet.

He had miscalculated her grade. He was off by four points.

I called the mother back and told her,
I don’t know what kind of prayer life you have, but... "

☺

............
@Red Sky at Morning
 

elsbet

Superstar
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
5,122
What higher criticism? Link please.
 

Daze

Superstar
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
5,824
You will find if not already that those in Christianity suffer from holy blindness.....They assume that one day Sky Daddy is going to come down and save them all! Odd thing about this since Jesus never heard the word Christian how is he going to know who's who? Most are hypocrites so I would not worry about what they think or say. Believe as you do and stay with that belief your safer that way.
Really its an indoctrination is what it is. They believe what their fathers believed, what their parents taught them, what their priests tell them while really questioning nothing.

I've shown numerous verses and yet its like talking to a stone wall. Take for example where Jesus asked God why he left him and then cried to God to save him.

“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46, KJV).

They say this man, literally crying to God, is god incarnate. Verse after verse after verse denying the divinity of Jesus and the fingers go into the ears.

It is cognitive dissonance in every sense of the word. Just look at these responses, nothing is answered, all to frequently completely different verses are given in response while some here only know insults and play to the lowest common denominator.

May God guide them. Had the Almighty willed every man, woman and child would be upon the religion of Adam.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,931
@Third Eye - It’s not something I had really engaged with before I started on this forum tbh but it quickly became obvious that many outside the Christian Faith take the conjectures of apostate and unbelieving “theology” experts to be authoritative.

A typical example might be a professor who holds to Hume’s view on miracles, has never believed and certainly never seen a miracle themselves. Seeing God move in power causes all the unbelief in the world to evaporate like morning mist.

In the same way, Archeological arguments suggesting Moses could have never written the Torah disappear when early examples of Hebrew writing are found, paraphrasing the curses pronounced on the disobedient.

 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 31, 2021
Messages
629
Despotism!
Human condition..
Easy~peasy indoctrination onto masses!



Gullible stranger told me, "Because, it is written here - thus 'tis true!"
"But what is your personal and intimate experience/feeling (without any influence of any text/script) to begin with?", I inquired.​

. . . silence followed!​


 

ISWIM

Rookie
Joined
Aug 22, 2018
Messages
15
Those who are in Christ and have been redeemed born again of the spirit of God have sin, but not sin that is imputed to them, because the consequence of that sin has already been dealt with at the cross. We appear without sin before God, because the blood of Jesus Christ effectually covers it.
We are commanded to Repent of our sins , which means to overcome sin , confess your sins , ask for forgiveness , and repeat as necessary . We have an advocate in Jesus Christ if we follow the authority of Him and His gift to mankind.
Just having a belief in Christ , does not afford blanket forgiveness of our on going transgressions . Actively seeking forgiveness through repentance is the key . One must do their part in obtaining forgiveness and purification through repentance , which is done through and with Christ. .
 
Top