The Vigilant Citizen Forums

God has never created one person to perish. The Bible says God is not willing that any of us should perish (2 Peter 3:9). However God created us with free will. We have to choose to let Him in our lives or not. All those who will perish will do so because of their choices not because God created them to perish.

After introducing the 144,000 in Revelation 7:4-8, John then beholds "a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations" (verse 9). In addition to the 144,000, we see a great multitude of the redeemed gathered from every nation. What good news that so many of the human race are going to be in the Kingdom.

“And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Sounds a lot like eternal punishment for those who took the mark (the majority of mankind).

“And whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
The devil and his angels will also be cast in the Lake and “tormented day and night for ever and ever” in the end so what makes you think humans won’t be too?

Eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out biblically. The same expression is used in Jude 7 concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha. "as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

It is quite obvious that Sodom is not still burning today. Biblically The fire will not go out until it fully consumes what is being burned (like in Sodom). This means that the “eternal fire” will be eternal in the sense that it will consume the wicked completely and irreversibly, leaving them “neither root nor branch” (Malachi 4:1).

Malachi 4:1,3. "For behold the day is coming burning like and oven, and all the proud, yes allude wickedly shall be as stubble. And the day that is coming shall burn them up, says the Lord of hosts,that shall leave them neither root nor branch. You shall trample the wicked for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet."

Psalms 37:10, 11, "For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more; Indeed, you will look diligently for his place, but it shall be no more." These verses tell us that the wicked will be burned up, burned to ashes. They will be no more. Not tormented eternally.

The theory of an everlasting punishment of the wicked has serious implications. If the wicked are punished forever, then evil will never be eradicated. Also, all human life derives from God who has “no pleasure in the death of the wicked” (Ezekiel 33:11).

Why then would God continue to grant life to the wicked to suffer in endless torment? Would it not be much more reasonable for Him just to end their existence? If the wicked will be punished “according to their works” (Revelation 20:12), why then should a short human life be punished endlessly? A loving God would not do that.

Sorry about all the responses but I am restricted by the 420 characters.

@TrustNo1 - the topic might make an interesting thread? I am intrigued to find out what more you think God ought to have done or how He could have done things differently and better than John 3:16 suggests?

I appreciate your input @phipps. My mind has been troubled over this matter, as everlasting misery doesn’t fit the perfect image of God.
I need a thread at this point lol

That's okay. I hope you study the Bible more on this subject and you will see that there really is no such thing as eternal torment in God's Word. God is love and He would never put anyone, not even the devil; through eternal torment. Plus sin has got to come to an end and the righteous live in a sinless world for all eternity. God bless.

@TrustNo1 If you don't believe in God how can you expect to find heaven? If you reject Gods existance after everything he has given you, from the food in your stomach to your eyesight and everything else in between.. Why should he reward you?

God is perfect and so is his justice.

@TrustNo1 Yes, God knows man is sinful and we were created this way. How can he show he is the most forgiving if there is no one to forgive?
The last prophet said if mankind didn't sin and sought his forgiveness then God would replace us with a creation that did.

@Daze when did I say I didn’t believe in God? I never doubted his existence. Then we have Red Sky over here implying I know what to do better than God. Stop twisting words people, it’s why we can’t have discussions.

You're very first reply to phipps looks like you're an atheist. ie, if even believers are going to hell then there must be no god, yes?

Perhaps i misunderstood you and i can't give in-depth replies here due to character limit. But theres a reason God sent down books, guidance. If they are ignored what do you expect the outcome to be?

Look at how many lie when its a violation of the 10 commandments, literally the foundation of the faith. Alot of "believers" fornicate today and commit adultery. Do they deserve heaven because they believe?

The only people who go to hell are those who reject heaven and the ones who reject heaven are those who reject what God has sent down. If you want to know what the correct path is its simple. Ask him, with sincerity. Those God guides can not be lead astray.