Can God push us too far.

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But there are these complexities in life what if someone commits a crime while possessed or people are blackmailed into things or mentally disturbed there are endless scenarios where I think what part does God possibly play in that, the COVID vaccines for instance, the denial of reaction, I just think where is God in this. What about pastors that kill themselves surely that should never happen ? Where is Gods protection. I don't understand there is no rhyme or reason to these things and that is what is confusing.


I recently thought I needed to be closer to God and sought him at least alot more than I have and my life got quite worse not better. So with knowing that God won't necessarily provide a way he wont prosper me, he won't free me as promised what reason do I have left to follow ? What I'm saying is in my reality the cause and effect isn't matching. Does not compute. If I'm supposed to be grateful for every second of existence no matter how torturous then I suppose those in hell should too?

What I'm saying is if ur life doesn't get better physically spiritually emotionally? Why follow God because he's God ? That doesn't really cut it.

It's like me saying u know my dad beat me up and still allows me to get beat up but I love him he's my dad .

Infact that's almost an inversion of the gospel that while God was a "sinner" we loved him anyway ? Yeh I'm struggling with this. Makes very little sense to me.
 

Lyfe

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But there are these complexities in life what if someone commits a crime while possessed or people are blackmailed into things or mentally disturbed there are endless scenarios where I think what part does God possibly play in that, the COVID vaccines for instance, the denial of reaction, I just think where is God in this. What about pastors that kill themselves surely that should never happen ? Where is Gods protection. I don't understand there is no rhyme or reason to these things and that is what is confusing.


I recently thought I needed to be closer to God and sought him at least alot more than I have and my life got quite worse not better. So with knowing that God won't necessarily provide a way he wont prosper me, he won't free me as promised what reason do I have left to follow ? What I'm saying is in my reality the cause and effect isn't matching. Does not compute. If I'm supposed to be grateful for every second of existence no matter how torturous then I suppose those in hell should too?

What I'm saying is if ur life doesn't get better physically spiritually emotionally? Why follow God because he's God ? That doesn't really cut it.

It's like me saying u know my dad beat me up and still allows me to get beat up but I love him he's my dad .

Infact that's almost an inversion of the gospel that while God was a "sinner" we loved him anyway ? Yeh I'm struggling with this. Makes very little sense to me.
You sought God more and these feelings got worse? Sounds like Satan has taken notice and is doing what he can do thwart your efforts and throw you off course. Thats what he does. Cast doubt and undermine ur faith. You need to start rebuking these forces in Jesus name. Tell them if they are going to torment you with negative thoughts then you are going to play the word of God on speaker and torment them back.
 

TokiEl

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What I'm saying is if ur life doesn't get better physically spiritually emotionally? Why follow God because he's God ? That doesn't really cut it.
You think ur life would get better by unfollowing God ?


This life on earth is truly temporary... many are even aborted before being born.

This age is about to end... an apocalypse is coming.


God or the world.

Those are our two options.


We can't have both... we got to choose.

The world or God.


You know God is gonna punish the world... so don't love the world.

Go ahead and hate it.
 

Nikōn

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But, I'm sure it was just a story the priests told to control the minions.
I don't know how something grafted to make a believer confront these difficult existential questions head-on could be used to control people when it requires the opposite of the cowardly running away and hiding that typifies the approach (to the same problems) that you present and on this forum are an avatar of.


Three quotes from the famous Atheist Existentialist and Absurdist Philosopher Albert Camus:

"Children will still die unjustly even in a perfect society. Even by his greatest effort, man can only propose to diminish, arithmetically, the sufferings of the world." - Albert Camus

"The love of God is a hard love. It demands total self-surrender, disdain of our human personality. And yet it alone can reconcile us to suffering and the deaths of children, it alone can justify them, since we cannot understand them, and we can only make God's will ours." - Albert Camus

"Suffering gives us no special rights." - Albert Camus
 

Alanantic

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I don't know how something grafted to make a believer confront these difficult existential questions head-on could be used to control people when it requires the opposite of the cowardly running away and hiding that typifies the approach (to the same problems) that you present and on this forum are an avatar of.


Three quotes from the famous Atheist Existentialist and Absurdist Philosopher Albert Camus:

"Children will still die unjustly even in a perfect society. Even by his greatest effort, man can only propose to diminish, arithmetically, the sufferings of the world." - Albert Camus

"The love of God is a hard love. It demands total self-surrender, disdain of our human personality. And yet it alone can reconcile us to suffering and the deaths of children, it alone can justify them, since we cannot understand them, and we can only make God's will ours." - Albert Camus

"Suffering gives us no special rights." - Albert Camus
Yeah, well your mother wears combat boots.
 

Alanantic

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But there are these complexities in life what if someone commits a crime while possessed or people are blackmailed into things or mentally disturbed there are endless scenarios where I think what part does God possibly play in that, the COVID vaccines for instance, the denial of reaction, I just think where is God in this. What about pastors that kill themselves surely that should never happen ? Where is Gods protection. I don't understand there is no rhyme or reason to these things and that is what is confusing.


I recently thought I needed to be closer to God and sought him at least alot more than I have and my life got quite worse not better. So with knowing that God won't necessarily provide a way he wont prosper me, he won't free me as promised what reason do I have left to follow ? What I'm saying is in my reality the cause and effect isn't matching. Does not compute. If I'm supposed to be grateful for every second of existence no matter how torturous then I suppose those in hell should too?

What I'm saying is if ur life doesn't get better physically spiritually emotionally? Why follow God because he's God ? That doesn't really cut it.

It's like me saying u know my dad beat me up and still allows me to get beat up but I love him he's my dad .

Infact that's almost an inversion of the gospel that while God was a "sinner" we loved him anyway ? Yeh I'm struggling with this. Makes very little sense to me.
"All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God." -- Nisargadatta
 

Michi

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@seekinheart

First there is no hell. God is not cruel. The dead sleep.

TokiEl mentioned Job.

Job 14:12
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

When Jesus arrives at the end only the upright will survive that fire. The rest will be consumed. There will not be an eternal burning.

2. After discovering such a thing as being saved, what is there to go back to?
It’s all dust!

The world is no place for the innocent it is true, but
Job 5:12
He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.

Do you think it is by chance that children are generally not affected by covid? Do you think the creators of the chimeric virus were somehow benevolent when it comes to children?

Please think back to when Jesus first saved you and when your love was new.

I know the Holy Spirit will speak to you if you tune out of the world for a while and give him your full attention. Even for an hour tonight.
 
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Even for an hour tonight
I agree with this. Having troubles with God, we should seek the answer in God. Lay down and pray for an hour the way Jesus Christ tsught
Our father who art in heaven
hallowed be thy name
thy kingdom come
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven
give us this day our daily bread
and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors
and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil
amen

when I have felt like this I found it was important to not pray from a place of my suffering. Put your suffering aside and seek the answer in God, search for God in prayer, silence. Feel gratitude for Gods creation. Feel Hope that God is with us. Try to pray until you feel love. That is better than carrying pain in our heart. We blame God for our pain but are we sure it came from God, not from ourself? Think what Jesus taught on the cross, he endured what we would call immense pain, but his love for God was not affected, pain is temporary but God eternal. Perhaps pain is our soul calling us to go deeper, search for God, forget about the world for a bit, take our prayer to a new level
 

Red Sky at Morning

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But If it backfires then no refining takes place if the man is pushed too far what if job had turned from God he had every right to really. If we believe we don't have rights with God then why should we honour rights with humans.
I guess it comes down to the question of God’s omniscience and eternality, as well as our own perspective.

When I have had enough of my trials, I sometimes think of Paul, perhaps fresh from a good whipping, sitting in a dimly lit, cold cell and writing “our light affliction that endures but for a moment…”
 
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Lyfe

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Sometimes I wonder though. I think despite the persecutions of Pauls day I still believe its harder to be a Christian today then it was back then. I know many would disagree with that. Being confined to a prison would be a very depressing fate, but what depresses me is the idea of a prolonged life of constant and unending warfare against the flesh in this present satanic system. Perhaps I speak in ignorance, but a part of me would rather be whipped and beaten then be tempted for life by my past sins. I used to live a very carnal life. I cant walk anywhere without some sort of reminder and temptation of my former life.

The chuch has never seen anything like what we are dealing with today. Im on year 10 as a servant of Christ and it takes its toll on a person. I hope God puts an end to this matrix of evil soon, because I see so many young Christians who love the lord start out well though time goes by and Satan brings them right back to their past sins and addictions and keeps them there in chains. Its hard to stay clean in this age of techno sorcery and seduction and you fight and you war, but you get tired and i dont know if the young church can handle 10 or 20 more years of this satanic onslaught/ war against the spirit . The church hasnt seen or experienced anything like it. Persecutions, poverty, and hiding always helped the church. Prosperity and being at ease in zion has given it trouble.
 

Wigi

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@seekinheart
This is a symptom when you're not spending enough time with God.
There are many things that we don't know yet but there is one thing that stay true for you it is God's love but it is not like a contract where you have all the blessings and no trials.
We were told that temptation awaits us in this life but there is also a solution if we stay patient :

'Beware of turning to evil, which you seem to prefer to affliction. “God is exalted in his power. Who is a teacher like him?'
Job 36:21‭-‬22

'No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.'
1 Corinthians 10:13

When you're struggling with negative thoughts that means you're too focused on wordly matters and you have to return to His Word.
We're following Christ because He first loved us and because He gifted us our salvation we love him in this life and beyond death as He did for us first.
 

Lyfe

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I dont neccesarily think its a symptom of not spending enough time with God. Look at Elijah. He was considered the mightiest prophet in the OT and fled into the wilderness begging God to take his life. David was always lamenting in the psalms. Jeremiah would ask God whats the point of anything.

We dont want to turn into Jobs friends who presumed they knew the reason behind his affliction. As a Christian we all go through trials, but our trials are still very unique in their own way which means we cant presume to have the full picture and understanding of another Christians life and what may cause them to have such feelings.
 

elsbet

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God knew Job would not turn.

Everything God allowed the devil to throw at Job... God knew Job would not crack.
True.

I read an amazing commentary on that story (I should have saved it), and there was a deeper lesson in there for Job, too. I cannot recall how the author put it, but as I'm sure you recall, Job got reemed by God at one point. Where were YOU, Mr Know-it-all, when I laid the foundations of the earth...?

I'll look for it, again... but like people today, his friends kept saying, Well, you must have done something (wrong)! And his wife, Oh, just curse God and be done with it!

This book illustrates beautifully the fact that God is the one who prepares the "good works" for you to walk in them-- it is not of ourselves. Legalism, though popular-- especially with the Catholic church-- is nonsense.
 

elsbet

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But If it backfires then no refining takes place if the man is pushed too far what if job had turned from God he had every right to really. If we believe we don't have rights with God then why should we honour rights with humans.
Have you asked God? He'll give a much better answer than anyone here.

-
 

elsbet

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I dont neccesarily think its a symptom of not spending enough time with God. Look at Elijah. He was considered the mightiest prophet in the OT and fled into the wilderness begging God to take his life. David was always lamenting in the psalms. Jeremiah would ask God whats the point of anything.

We dont want to turn into Jobs friends who presumed they knew the reason behind his affliction. As a Christian we all go through trials, but our trials are still very unique in their own way which means we cant presume to have the full picture and understanding of another Christians life and what may cause them to have such feelings.
And they were all in constant contact with God.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Sometimes I wonder though. I think despite the persecutions of Pauls day I still believe its harder to be a Christian today then it was back then. I know many would disagree with that. Being confined to a prison would be a very depressing fate, but what depresses me is the idea of a prolonged life of constant and unending warfare against the flesh in this present satanic system. Perhaps I speak in ignorance, but a part of me would rather be whipped and beaten then be tempted for life by my past sins. I used to live a very carnal life. I cant walk anywhere without some sort of reminder and temptation of my former life.

The chuch has never seen anything like what we are dealing with today. Im on year 10 as a servant of Christ and it takes its toll on a person. I hope God puts an end to this matrix of evil soon, because I see so many young Christians who love the lord start out well though time goes by and Satan brings them right back to their past sins and addictions and keeps them there in chains. Its hard to stay clean in this age of techno sorcery and seduction and you fight and you war, but you get tired and i dont know if the young church can handle 10 or 20 more years of this satanic onslaught/ war against the spirit . The church hasnt seen or experienced anything like it. Persecutions, poverty, and hiding always helped the church. Prosperity and being at ease in zion has given it trouble.
Paul was at Corinth for some time. The culture there was…. interesting!

 

Lyfe

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Paul was at Corinth for some time. The culture there was…. interesting!

Paul lived under very difficult circumstances and in a culture with its own set of temptations, but I still dont think it compares to what the church faces today. I dont think many of these older generations of Christians really have an idea of how binding and problematic allot of these newer inventions of evil are. They create bondage snd addiction on a scientific level. I cant speak for everyone, but I never had a father growing up and my mother and I had a distant and unorthodox relationship. I spent my teens and early twenties always inundating myself with video games, porn, and alcahol. There was an emptiness and brokeness inside of me cause of that which many Christians just cant relate to. I didnt even truly understand it until later in life how much it would affect me as an adult. It was that same despair and emptiness that led me to fill my life with such carnal quick fixes. These are some of the most addicting things known to man and when you pair them with a broken individual it becomes very difficult to fight against for years on end, especially given how accesible they are. I dont have a wife or kids so again it is a life that many Christians just cant relate to, because many are able to go home to a family at the end of the day. When you pair that lack with the temptations we have today the thought of going back to something that brings immediate satisfaction and inundation is very tempting and always there. This is especially so when as a Christian you can easily fall into depression. I have often felt frustrstion when speaking to some of the Christians who try to give advice, because I realize they just simply cannot relate to what its like to never really grow up with parents. They go home to their family every night. Now this isnt a pity party and I am not trying to generate sympathy, but I am just demonstrating that some Christians are asked to overcome allot more than others. There are handfuls of younger Christians I know who resorted to drugs in their early years and didnt really have parents like me. I see them on fire for the lord but Satan brings them back. Its very depressing to see. I believe in Gods grace and ability to sustain and set free, but the reality is that there are some Christians that have a greater struggle and allot more to overcome, allot more intense warfare on a day to day basis. The younger Christians have serious battles against ahead of them given the nature of the system they are being delivered from. These problems are deeper than theology and advice. That is why I said the thought of a prolonged life always battling the temptations of these things depresses me. Im on a smart phone and if I become overwhelmed with sorrow or grief which is normal for a Christian i can literally go back to my old ways in less than 2 seconds. I had to get rid of my computer cause when i felt depressed I would play video games. They were right there easy access within my home and it was an escape from reality. I couldn't figure out why i felt the way I felt, but I was unable to function properly. I knew it was keeping me from the lord so I sold it. It was like a drug. These are sins and problems the body of Christ just hasnt dealt with and allot of older middle class christians and pastors who came from good families and are married with kids just cant relate to. There were no smart phones back then, no high def televisions where entertainment becomes available at the leisure of your own home, there were none of the things back then that there are today. It is a different spiritual warfare that exists today, a more devestating one IMHO.
 
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