Can God push us too far.

Alanantic

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"Your humanist "good without God" ideas have deceived you into thinking people are something they are not. We are sinners with a sin code that only the holy spirit can change. Sin and the death code are in your very DNA. "

You poor sick bastard. Who, in their right mind, would ever WANT to believe that???
 






voj

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God did do something about it, but you believe not.
Sometimes one need to be ignorant and believe not everything he sees. Everything can be deceitable even the truth. Why cant you see it for what it is or is it that your eyes betrays you? If i dont believe it means i dont want to believe. . .Simple.
 






Lyfe

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"Your humanist "good without God" ideas have deceived you into thinking people are something they are not. We are sinners with a sin code that only the holy spirit can change. Sin and the death code are in your very DNA. "

You poor sick bastard. Who, in their right mind, would ever WANT to believe that???
It doesnt matter what someone wants to believe. That is what Christ taught. Your reproaches dont fall on me, they fall on him. I am just reiterating what he taught.
 






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Lyfe

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Choosing suffering willingly seems like an awful way to go about life, exchanging the very real present for a possible afterlife. You do you though bruv
Choosing suffering willingly seems like an awful way to go about life, exchanging the very real present for a possible afterlife. You do you though bruv
What would cause a Christian to suffer?
 






TokiEl

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I'm pretty sure everything you know about God came from a book.
As the queen said and i quote...

"It does not take a book to teach me
that when someone is cruel to me
I do not like it
So since I do not like it
I should not be cruel to others"



We don't need a book to teach us righteousness.




And as Jesus said and i quote...

John 5 39You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, 40yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.


It's about relationship with God... not about religion or playing church.



Or, have you had a personal experience of this God you speak of?
Yes of course... or else i would not speak of God.

I know what im talking about because of personal experience.
 






Lyfe

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“If you are brought to a point of sadness and dissapointment and hatred of the world and how things are then you are right where God wants you.”

Sounds like suffering to me bruv
Its acctually the dissapointment in and of the world that causes that sort of suffering you just referenced. The hardness of life. Its something experienced as a result of the state of the world. The irony is that for the Christian its the world that causes them the most pain and suffering, not the Christian life.

You guys are so quick to point out how much suffering is in the world. Does the world choose to suffer or is it just a result of how things are? To what extent is suffering avoidable?
 






Lyfe

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Amor Fati.

Suffering is part of existence and will be always, no matter how much things improve ( as they clearly have whether traditionalists see it or not ) it will always be a part of being alive. Take it for it what it is.

How else would we know what happiness, passion or love is without pain?
You said that choosing to suffer willingly is an awful way to go about life. I say that willingly investing in and choosing a world full of constant dissapointment, heatbreak, struggle, and hardship is worse. People willingly choose sin and death over life which is the real awful way to go about life.
 






Lyfe

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No you chose only the suffering in allegiance to your carpenter. You reject anything that might make a worthwhile life ( and all attempts to improve it ) because of him.
That carpenter encouraged his followers to love their enemies, feed and clothe the poor, give to the needy, and to do good to man. If that doesnt qualify to you as a worthwhile then you ought to examine the condition of your heart and even ask yourself if you know what it is your talking about. You are no different from those who accused Jesus of being a madman and a lunatic in his day despite all the good he had done.
 






Nikōn

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Nikon
I also suggested that the "good book"
Could be our very first way to control the masses
By designing a beautiful escape from this life
Of course this is your good n do what god tells you to
"By designing a beautiful escape from this life"

Under heretical doctrines perhaps (such as Gnosticism which places a very heavy emphasis on "the spirit" world vs the material, rather than a balance between the two) but from the offset, the Torah outlines the reality of this life with the nature of suffering, of politics, of one's lifespan, of the paradox of sexuality, of murder, of widespread evil. By the time we reach Abraham in the book of Genesis, we've already encountered the full extent of what humanity is and can be, especially in terms of evil and suffering.

Suffering and evil are never glossed over in the Bible and as many Atheists ironically point out, the Bible can be a very uncomfortable read to modern liberal sensitivities. Just like with Islam's own texts (Qur'an and Hadith), it doesn't beat around the bush trying to idealize this life into something other than what we face personally day in and day out.

As we find evident in any debates with Atheists (they typically act like the Utilitarian theory is a salvation), suffering is never counteracted or able to be denied by the detractors of quote-unquote "Religion", suffering is still always there, alternative (and more predominant for secular people) views towards suffering only add the Utilitarian theory on top. Yet Utilitarianism is very much the benchmark of Capitalist-consumerism which makes both a spectacle and a product of your very suffering.
So which one really controls the masses? the one that takes advantage of it, or the traditional "religious" view which prioritizes a deep, personal engagement with the nature of that suffering?
 






Alanantic

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It doesn't matter what someone wants to believe. That is what Christ taught. Your reproaches don't fall on me, they fall on him. I am just reiterating what he taught.
Then you christ taught crap.

"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." -- Thomas Paine
 






Nikōn

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Suffering is part of existence and will be always, no matter how much things improve ( as they clearly have whether traditionalists see it or not ) it will always be a part of being alive. Take it for it what it is.
This is something I find so funny.

One one hand human suffering is all God's fault to you, yet there is the obvious fact that humans cause our own suffering. So whether or not God exists in your belief, suffering is still there, so our own suffering cannot be projected onto God; as to remove our own burden of accountability.
 






Nikōn

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Then you christ taught crap.

"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." -- Thomas Paine
"Cruel" is a word denoting a negative unethical value-judgement, not a neutral term.
It also is not what anybody would envision themselves "I Alanantic aspire to be a cruel person when I grow up", "I STARMAN aspire to be a cruel person when I grow up". Yet you may be already.
 






Lyfe

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Sure all that’s good and well but it’s not like he is the only person through-out history to teach so.

He was also an end-times apocalyptic preacher and much of the religion called Christianity is based not of his teachings but Paul, late period Roman Emperors and Popes, and Middle Ages theologians.
Sure all that’s good and well but it’s not like he is the only person through-out history to teach so.

He was also an end-times apocalyptic preacher and much of the religion called Christianity is based not of his teachings but Paul, late period Roman Emperors and Popes, and Middle Ages theologians.
Paul didnt teach Christians to love their neighbor and do good to others? Or, was his message to Christians of loving others not worthwhile also?
 






Lyfe

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Whereas Jesus would mingle with the dregs of society Paul taught avoidance of them. Jesus wasn’t ( usually ) to dogmatic and rules and regulations whereas Paul was.
You’re missing the point that Jesus said the end was imminent and so was his return. Didn’t happen.

The apostles were convinced he was going to return any day now and it didn’t happen, so believers had to adjust and started adding on to many of the mostly good things he taught.

Then the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the followers were dejected so John of Patmos wrote a coded letter to not give up the faith and to say “it’s coming soon guys!!!” Also didn’t happen as here we are 2k years later.
If I wasnt on a phone and if it wasnt such an inconvenience to quote scripture I would point out how what your saying just isnt true. Both Paul and Christ taught love and doing good to others. A way of life that you contend isnt worthwhile. It just goes to show your unwillingness to properly understand the Bible, because if you did it would discredit your false preconceived notions. Its scary to think that so many speak well of Jesus when in fact they would have been the very individuals calling him beezlebub in his day.
 






Michi

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@Nikōn and @Lyfe

Why do you bother?
They are full of themselves and will spew rivers of filth whenever you indulge them. Atlantic has probably won more souls for Christ than all of us combined with his baby surprise face alone!
 






Alanantic

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"Cruel" is a word denoting a negative unethical value-judgement, not a neutral term.
It also is not what anybody would envision themselves "I Alanantic aspire to be a cruel person when I grow up", "I STARMAN aspire to be a cruel person when I grow up". Yet you may be already.
I aspire to a greater God.
@Nikōn and @Lyfe

Why do you bother?
They are full of themselves and will spew rivers of filth whenever you indulge them. Atlantic has probably won more souls for Christ than all of us combined with his baby surprise face alone!
You flatter me! :)
 






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