Did Jesus Abolish the law by fulfilling it?

phipps

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I have been surprised what some Christians have told me here about obedience and Jesus fulfilling the law. They've told me its impossible to be fully obedient, that Jesus fulfilled the law (the ten commandments) so we don't have to. I have read that some Christians say that means Jesus did away with the law. But is that what the Bible says and teaches?

Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Does "fulfil" mean to do away with? The Cambridge Dictionary tells me that fulfil means to "do something that is expected, hoped for, or promised, or to cause it to happen:" So doing something that is expected or causing it to happen is not abolishing it.

The Greek word translated “fulfil” in Matthew 5:17 comes from the root word pleroo, which can also means “to make full, to fill, to fill up … to fill to the full” or “to render full, i.e. to complete” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Strong’s #4137). Thus, “fulfil” can mean to complete or accomplish, but it can also mean to fill to the full. To cite Matthew 5:17 as proof that Jesus meant, “I did not come to destroy the law, but to end it by fulfilling it” is inconsistent with His words and makes no sense. However, the meaning “fill to the full” does make clear His intent.

Both in His life and in His teaching, Jesus fulfilled the law. That is, He did what is implied by the words “fill to the full.” He magnified God’s law by His perfect example and gave it its full meaning. He emphasized its deep underlying principles and the need for total commitment to it rather than mere external acknowledgment and obedience.

The intent of Jesus’ statement in Matthew 5:17 is, “I did not come to do away with the Law or the Prophets, but I came to uphold them in everything that I say and do.” He did exactly that, showing the holy, spiritual purpose of God’s law, obeying it perfectly in thought and action, in both the letter and in the intent of heart.

However, His being a model Son did not free the rest of God’s children from our responsibilities to our Heavenly Father. By analogy, compare this to a human family. If the oldest sibling in the family of many children was an excellent role model, observing all of the household rules, would his actions free his younger siblings from any obligation to behave? Of course not! So why do people think differently about God’s spiritual family?


Here is a link to read more on the subject according to the Bible.
 
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elsbet

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However, His being a model Son did not free the rest of God’s children from our responsibilities to our Heavenly Father. By analogy, compare this to a human family. If the oldest sibling in the family of many children was an excellent role model, observing all of the household rules, would his actions free his younger siblings from any obligation to behave? Of course not! So why do people think differently about God’s spiritual family?
And the Spirit that works in us, enables us to do that-- but it still isn't a Salvation issue. Indeed, it is a benefit, thereof! When we fail, we do not have to worry about being damned, as you seem to believe...

For we do not have a high priest who cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin.

Let us therefore draw near with boldness to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace for help in time of need.
Thank GOD.
 
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“I did not come to do away with the Law or the Prophets, but I came to uphold them in everything that I say and do.”
You seem to think the law spoken of are the 10 Commandments.

I see the law of the Prophets as Jewish law which look more like these.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Which type of law are you referring to?

You might also remember that the bible has 3 different sets of 10 Commandments and that they are all different.

Regards
DL
 

Beloved

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Fulfilling the law is something that the true children of God can do, and should be doing every day:

Romans 13:8-13
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
 
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any "Christian" telling you or making excuses for not following the 10 commandments is a false prophet.

I can't remember the verse or book but there was one when a guy asked Christ straight up "how do you get to the kingdom of Heaven ?"

Christ said straight up "Follow the commandments"

Christ is another passage said to hang all of the commandents upon the Great Commandment which was to

a) love god
b) love your neighbour as you wish to be loved

His commandments are simple. If you love your neighbour as you do yourself, you will not break the main commandments

Christ's main teachings are love and respect.

If anyone thinks they can live their life without love and respect for others and magically be forgiven, they are dead wrong.
 
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Romans 13:8-13

Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Is it bearing false witness when the religious talk about Yahweh or Allah, when no one has access to the supernatural realm where god supposedly resides?

Can anything be known anything of the supernatural and are they lying when they just accept the words of scribes without having any first hand experience?

Regards
DL
 

phipps

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And the Spirit that works in us, enables us to do that-- but it still isn't a Salvation issue. Indeed, it is a benefit, thereof! When we fail, we do not have to worry about being damned, as you seem to believe...

For we do not have a high priest who cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin.

Let us therefore draw near with boldness to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace for help in time of need.
Thank GOD.
It is a salvation issue. Obedience has always been a test of loyalty to God. Starting from Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, the children of Israel etc. The Bible tells us what happens when we obey or disobey God. No one can walk with God without being obedient. Obedience is the result of having been saved by God's grace through Christ. Obedience is the evidence of faith in our lives, for we can only be righteous by faith. When we are obedient it means we love God. Obedience is not one of those things a Christian can skip doing. If we are true Christians we naturally obey. No one will make it to eternal life without being obedient. Disobedience is evidence that we are against God and reject Him and His precepts.

Of course we can't be obedient without God. We need God before we can obey, and we must choose to obey to receive the power to obey. We submit to God, God empowers us to do His will, we continue to obey, He empowers us to do more of His will, and so on and so forth. (Philippians 2:13) Without God’s saving grace, we have only our useless self-righteousness, but our obedience is crucial. We must choose to obey.

Romans 6:16, "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"
 
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It is a salvation issue. Obedience has always been a test of loyalty to God. Starting from Adam and Eve,
If so, why do Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan in your Exultet hymn?

If necessary to god's great plan, would you not follow Adam's lead or would you derail god's plan?

Regards
DL
 

A Freeman

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Is it bearing false witness when the religious talk about Yahweh or Allah, when no one has access to the supernatural realm where god supposedly resides?
At this moment in history, after having 6000 years to overcome our own ignorance, it is bearing false witness for someone to pretend that YHWH/Allah doesn't exist, when they have entire world FILLED with evidence of His Creation.

Can anything be known anything of the supernatural and are they lying when they just accept the words of scribes without having any first hand experience?

Regards
DL
There are many who have had first-hand supernatural experiences, e.g. NDEs and out-of-body experiences. Similarly, there have been many who have experienced feelings of déjà vu, or of being forewarned about something at just the right moment, thus avoiding a potential disaster or life-threatening situation. Others yet are shown through their own memories, when they had previously asked for the answer to some question (sometimes years previously) to show that the question had only been answered when they were ready for the answer.

There are those who have taken notice of these things, and have learned how to re-establish constant telepathic communication with our Creator, and thus have been first-hand witnesses of these supernatural experiences. And not just every once in a while but every single day.

Of course there are others, who are spiritually sound asleep in the human condition, i.e. they're either incapable or unwilling of taking notice of everything that's going on around them, including what's going on in their own minds.
 

phipps

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What Does the Bible Say About Law and Grace?

Are God's law and His grace really contradictory, as many seem to think? Or do they work together?


How does the Bible describe God’s law?

God’s commandments show us how to love and are not burdensome. "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3).

The apostle Paul said that love is the fulfillment of the law (Romans 13:9-10).

Jesus Christ summarized the whole law as love for God and man (Matthew 22:37-40).

Christ also said those seeking eternal life should keep the Ten Commandments and He listed several of them as examples (Matthew 19:17-19).

James called God’s law a royal law and a law of liberty (James 2:8, 12).

The psalmist loved and meditated on God’s law—it gave him wisdom and understanding—it was sweet to him (Psalm 119).

The apostle Paul called it holy, just and good and spiritual (Romans 7:12, 14).

The heart of the New Covenant is that God’s laws will be written on our hearts and minds. “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” (Hebrews 10:16).

What happens when we disobey the law?

The Bible calls this sin. "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness" (1 John 3:4).

As obedience brings blessings, disobedience naturally brings curses (Deuteronomy 28). All unhappiness, misery, anguish and woe have come from transgressing God’s law.

Sin leads to death and, sadly, we have all sinned. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 3:23; 6:23).

God hates sin so much that He made the penalty for sin death. But He loves us so much He let His Son pay that awesome penalty for us. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).

What about grace?

Grace is undeserved favour that we receive from God, and it includes the gift of forgiveness. We deeply appreciate God’s grace and forgiveness, made possible through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Law and grace are both wonderful gifts of God. Law shows us the wretchedness of our putrid evil sins and points us to repentance and forgiveness through God’s grace. Grace leads us to utter appreciation for our holy and merciful God and to a deepening desire to be like Him. How? By doing what He says—obeying His law of love in its full spirit and intent.

Titus 2:11-14, "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works."


Link
 
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Are God's law and His grace really contradictory, as many seem to think? Or do they work together?
Why does your god deny so many his grace and ignores our free will?
--------------------------------------

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.


Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then the is is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to show how vile your genocidal god is.

Regards
DL
 

A Freeman

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Thanks for bearing false witness.

Have some evidence of your filthy garbage genocidal prick of a god.


Regards
DL
The only genocide prick of a god that you need to worry about is the one that lives between your ears.

Learn to destroy your ego before it destroys YOU.
 
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phipps

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Can anyone be saved in His kingdom without obeying His Word?

“Not everyone who says to Me,‘Lord,Lord,’shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).

“If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17).

“He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him” (Hebrews 5:9).

No. Scripture is very clear on this. Salvation and the kingdom of heaven are for those who obey the Lord’s commands. God does not promise eternal life to those who merely make a profession of faith or are church members or are baptized, but rather to those who do His will, which is revealed in Scripture. Of course, this obedience is possible only through Christ (Acts 4:12).

 

A Freeman

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The word "Satan" is Hebrew and means "the Opposer" (God's Adversary).

God gave us all of the necessary tools to create a perfect society within the first five books of the Bible, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

Collectively, those books are referred to as The Torah in Hebrew which, in English, means The Law. While The Law contains what is commonly referred to as the 10 Commandments (Exod. 20:3-17, Deut. 5:7-21), which are the basic, universal principles of The Law, the whole of The Moral, National Law is often referred to as "the Commandments" because they are God's COMMANDS to us, given to us to protect us from evil and to set and keep us free.

IF we kept The Law, as we were COMMANDED to do for our own benefit, and which we all promised to do, we would all be enjoying:

TRUE FREEDOM - under the perfect system of government, where there are no banksters or politicians and their made-up money and rules

TRUE JUSTICE - with the perfect system of justice, where there are no attorneys and black-robed judges administering and enforcing satanic policies, and where everyone is taught and knows The Law

TRUE PEACE - where war is a capital offense

TRUE PROSPERITY - where the perfect economic system ensures there is no crime or poverty

THE TRUE SAFETY AND SECURITY that only God can provide

And the perfect healthy diet, which eliminates all life-ending sickness and disease.

God sent all of His Prophets/Messengers with His Message of Truth (The Law), and finally His Son. And we've beaten, tortured and murdered them for telling us the truth, and then wonder why the world is in the mess it's in today (Matt. 21:33-46).

Christ quite obviously did NOT come to destroy The Law, as He quite clearly stated.

Matthew 5:17-20
5:17 Think NOT that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill [fully preach The Law (The Torah) and fulfill the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah].
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till ALL be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in The Kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians, ye shall in no case enter into The Kingdom of heaven.

Anyone who claims otherwise, i.e. anyone claiming that we no longer have to keep The Law, is still listening to, obeying and working for Satan, knowingly or otherwise. And everyone who continues to listen to, obey and work for Satan will find themselves in The Fire on Judgment Day. There will be NO exceptions.

Sin = breaking The Law (1 John 3:4). The wages of sin/breaking The Law are DEATH (Ezek. 18:4, 20, Rom. 6:23). Logically, the only way to stop sinning is to remember and return to keeping The Law.

Malachi 4
4:1 For, behold, the Day cometh, that shall burn like an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, that it shall leave of them neither root nor branch (nothing).
4:2 But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in The Day that I shall do [this], saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts.
4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.
4:5 Behold, I will send you EliJAH the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the "I AM" (Sura 43:61):
4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse (see verse 1 for the details of the curse).
 
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Can anyone be saved in His kingdom without obeying His Word?

“Not everyone who says to Me,‘Lord,Lord,’shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).

“If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17).

“He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him” (Hebrews 5:9).

No. Scripture is very clear on this. Salvation and the kingdom of heaven are for those who obey the Lord’s commands. God does not promise eternal life to those who merely make a profession of faith or are church members or are baptized, but rather to those who do His will, which is revealed in Scripture. Of course, this obedience is possible only through Christ (Acts 4:12).
If what you say is true, why do Christians sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to Yahweh's plan?

Why is disobedience necessary to Yahweh's plan, and why are you promoting derailing it by not doing the happy fault of sinning and derailing the great plan?

Regards
DL
 

A Freeman

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Could not respond to the vileness of your garbage creating god I see.

Regards
DL
The truth doesn't require anyone to defend it. When someone attacks the truth, as you continually do, they're obviously working for Satan, and thus seeing everything upside down and backwards, as you undoutbedly are.

You don't even know what you are, or why you are here in hell, aka “Earth”, and yet expect others to take you at your word, which is worthless. You really would do well to say/write nothing, instead of removing all doubt.

THE God (Allah), aka YHWH, the "I AM", The Most High, The King Ruler of the Universe, and The Creator, is The Best Planner, The Most Merciful, Oft-Forgiving, The Most Patient and Long-Suffering, and The Most Loving Heavenly Father.

It's truly a shame you spend so much time cursing our Loving, Heavenly Father for your master: Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, the temporary prince of this world, of which you are a part of, and apparently wish to remain.

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY:

Isaiah 5:20-21
5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for Light, and Light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
5:21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

Revelation 21:7-8
21:7 He that overcometh (his own ego/"self" - Matt. 10:38, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Gal. 2:20) shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be My (adopted) son.
21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with Fire and brimstone: which is the second death (the death of the REAL you the Soul/spirit-Being within).

God Bless.
 
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