Did Jesus Exist? All Scholars Agree He “Certainly” Existed

[A Freeman]

honest question - if someone reads the bible kjv, they're religion is called christianity, if someone reads the quran, what would they're religion be called?

(just trying to understand)

Thank-you for the question @Lil axe. It may not seem this obvious, but why does anyone need any of those labels, all of which are actually both divisive as well as misnomers?

Someone who reads, seeks God's Guidance in understanding, and truly believes (lives by) all of God's Word is simply a believer. What we need to do is break-free of all organized religion, and simply DO what we've been Commanded to do throughout Scripture: do God's Will (which begins with keeping His Law/Commandments, Statutes and Judgments). If we do that, there is hope (Rev. 18:4). If we do it not, then we make a mockery of Christ's Sacrifice.

We have God's Law -- which is the ONLY Criterion there is for determining what is right, good, just and fair vs. what is wrong, evil, unjust and unfair -- in the Old Covenant.

We have the Gospel account of The One and Only Example in Christ -- our one and only Teacher, one and only mediator between God and mankind, one and only High-Priest for all Time, and the one and only Good Shepherd -- in the New Covenant.

And we have confirmation of both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant in the Koran/Quran.

Please let me know if the above answers your question, or if it leads to another.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Daze]

honest question - if someone reads the bible kjv, they're religion is called christianity, if someone reads the quran, what would they're religion be called?

(just trying to understand)

I read the Bible, does that make me a Christian? @Alanantic reads the Bible, at least i seem to remember he has mentioned quoting it. Is he a Christian?

Many read the Quran to attack it. David wood is a good example here. Freeman loves to quote Quran, does he come off as a Muslim while he simultaneously attacks Islam?

I think what makes me curious is why you would ask this question to Freeman? Its like asking the same question to Anton Levey. Who is a well known satanist.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

…Lets end on another fact. You don't have the first clue what Islam's perspective is on anything. The only thing you know and that we can all see, is that you hate what God has sent down. I mean it shows. Why can't you make a post that doesn't attack Islam? When is the last time you mentioned Hinduism? Buddhism? Taoism? Never? Ya, we all know and we all can see it.

There is only one thorn in your side Red. Even in a thread like this, where we'd agree on the topic, you have to spit into the wind.

Never will the Jews or Christians be pleased with you, until you follow their faith. Say, “Allah’s guidance is the only ˹true˺ guidance.” (2:120 Quran)

You posted quite a long response that hit on a number of points, but I will address the last first.

Why don’t I spend time discussing eastern religions? Perhaps this encounter between a Christian and a Maharishi might illustrate the issue:-

Eastern thought takes a “both, and” approach to logic and therefore makes no particular specific claims other than the wheel of Karma, the multiplicity of paths etc. It has been described as the “embrace that smothers” and hence the difficulty lies in addressing particular claims using logic. Too often it is like wrestling a cloud, but as the encounter illustrates, sometimes it takes a miracle to cut through the fog.

As for Islam, I would suggest to you that Muhammad is the prophet of the worlds largest Christian sect, similar in many ways to Mormonism insofar as the foundational claim is that the message of the Bible has been corrupted and an additional revelation was required, either by Gabriel or Meroni. Since the book of Galatians specifically warns about angels coming to preach “another gospel”, my disagreement with Islam is not directed at individuals or aimed at creating forum squabbles, but to the spiritual root which would appear to be demonic deception.

Take away the death and resurrection of Jesus and you take away the atonement. It is by the shed blood of Jesus and that alone that I trust to be able to stand before God. Jesus didn’t come to found a religion (though religiously minded folk have through the centuries tried to “religiousify” the Gospel), He came to restore a broken relationship with the Father through sacrificial death. The veil to the Holy of Holies was not ripped from top to bottom for no reason.

Psalm 22 describes a crimson worm which foreshadows what Jesus would later do. This makes no sense outside the “Passion of the Christ”.

Spoiler: Psalm 22

Psalm of the Cross

(Matthew 27:45-56; Mark 15:33-41; Luke 23:44-49; John 19:28-30)


1{To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.} My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6But I am a worm*, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

9But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

10I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

11Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

12Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

13They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

14I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

15My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

16For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

17I may tell all my bones: they look andstare upon me.

18They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

19But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

20Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

21Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

22I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

23Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

24For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

25My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

26The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

27All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.

29All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

@Daze - I have no issue with you personally but perhaps my rejection of Islam makes you my de facto opponent. Regardless I hope you understand the spirit in which I offer my disagreement.

 

[Lil axe]

Thank-you for the question @Lil axe. It may not seem this obvious, but why does anyone need any of those labels, all of which are actually both divisive as well as misnomers?

Someone who reads, seeks God's Guidance in understanding, and truly believes (lives by) all of God's Word is simply a believer. What we need to do is break-free of all organized religion, and simply DO what we've been Commanded to do throughout Scripture: do God's Will (which begins with keeping His Law/Commandments, Statutes and Judgments). If we do that, there is hope (Rev. 18:4). If we do it not, then we make a mockery of Christ's Sacrifice.

We have God's Law -- which is the ONLY Criterion there is for determining what is right, good, just and fair vs. what is wrong, evil, unjust and unfair -- in the Old Covenant.

We have the Gospel account of The One and Only Example in Christ -- our one and only Teacher, one and only mediator between God and mankind, one and only High-Priest for all Time, and the one and only Good Shepherd -- in the New Covenant.

And we have confirmation of both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant in the Koran/Quran.

Please let me know if the above answers your question, or if it leads to another.

Peace be upon you.

thanks for your response

i don't follow any organized religions, to me if someone believes in god and wants to do good, they are cool with me
was just curious, as i reading through the thread

 

[A Freeman]

As i said i have ignored him. But I've seen plenty of posts where he attacks Islam and always with retarded reasons. It would not surprise me if he did try to put the Quran down.

Misinterpret? Don't you mean twisting the verses? If memory serves he believes Jesus was crucified, yes?

It does not get more clear then this.

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allāh." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. (4:157 Quran)

Who knows better? God or Freeman?

Here's more relevance.

He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ the Book, of which some verses are precise—they are the foundation of the Book—while others are elusive. Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations—but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah. As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason. (3:7 Quran)

As i said above, they only wrong themselves.

Indeed, those who inject deviation into Our verses are not concealed from Us. (41:40 Quran)

Everything is recorded, everything will be brought to account.

Logical fallacy employed: FALSE DICHOTOMY.

A false dichotomy is a logical fallacy that involves presenting two opposing facts, views, or options as though they were the only possibilities. The false dichotomy fallacy is often committed when someone thinks one of the two options is obviously true while the other is obviously false.

Of course there is a third possibility, which is the only logical explanation: people are MISINTERPRETING that one verse (Sura 4:157), choosing to believe that it somehow contradicts SCORES of other verses which leave NO DOUBT that Jesus was crucified and that God raised Him after three days and three nights.

Please also note well in the cited version of Sura 4:157 that @Daze posted, there is an intentionally, deceitful addition of "another" in square brackets, which is NOT in the original text.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

corpus.quran.com

Shameful and untrustworthy behaviour.

 

[Lil axe]

I read the Bible, does that make me a Christian? @Alanantic reads the Bible, at least i seem to remember he has mentioned quoting it. Is he a Christian?

Many read the Quran to attack it. David wood is a good example here. Freeman loves to quote Quran, does he come off as a Muslim while he simultaneously attacks Islam?

I think what makes me curious is why you would ask this question to Freeman? Its like asking the same question to Anton Levey. Who is a well known satanist.

thanks for your response

in the area i live, if one reads the bible, they are labelled christian, people call me that sometimes, because i read the bible and pray

to be honest i've never read the quran, this forum helps me to learn, some day i should read the quran

i dont follow organized religions, my dad was baptist, my mother anglican, my friends were catholic, some were jehova witness', i saw alot of arguing, thought was weird, if they were all into god, why argue, i live outside a 1 horse town, only within the past 2 years we started having different religions arrive, muslims and sikhs, hindus, etc, i know youve mentioned in the past you were a christian for 30 years, and how you saw alot of racism from the christians, personally i dont want to fight with anyone, i live outside of town, in the sticks, i try to get along with everyone

if people believe in god and want to do good, they are cool with me, no matter their religion

only reason i asked the question to freeman, i was reading through the thread, and stuck out to me that he said about people reading the quran, that was - corporate fictional organized religion that deceitfully calls itself "Islam" , just stuck out to me, because like i mentioned people call me christian because i read the bible, and they call ones who read the quran, followers of islam

we are on the same side, god the creator's side, our foe is satan

take care

 

[Daze]

You posted quite a long response that hit on a number of points, but I will address the last first.

Why don’t I spend time discussing eastern religions? Perhaps this encounter between a Christian and a Maharishi might illustrate the issue:-

Eastern thought takes a “both, and” approach to logic and therefore makes no particular specific claims other than the wheel of Karma, the multiplicity of paths etc. It has been described as the “embrace that smothers” and hence the difficulty lies in addressing particular claims using logic. Too often it is like wrestling a cloud, but as the encounter illustrates, sometimes it takes a miracle to cut through the fog.

As for Islam, I would suggest to you that Muhammad is the prophet of the worlds largest Christian sect, similar in many ways to Mormonism insofar as the foundational claim is that the message of the Bible has been corrupted and an additional revelation was required, either by Gabriel or Meroni. Since the book of Galatians specifically warns about angels coming to preach “another gospel”, my disagreement with Islam is not directed at individuals or aimed at creating forum squabbles, but to the spiritual root which would appear to be demonic deception.

Take away the death and resurrection of Jesus and you take away the atonement. It is by the shed blood of Jesus and that alone that I trust to be able to stand before God. Jesus didn’t come to found a religion (though religiously minded folk have through the centuries tried to “religiousify” the Gospel), He came to restore a broken relationship with the Father through sacrificial death. The veil to the Holy of Holies was not ripped from top to bottom for no reason.

Psalm 22 describes a crimson worm which foreshadows what Jesus would later do. This makes no sense outside the “Passion of the Christ”.

@Daze - I have no issue with you personally but perhaps my rejection of Islam makes you by de facto opponent. Regardless I hope you understand the spirit in which I offer my disagreement.

Why do you need videos? Do you think people actually watch them Red? Especially when the source is biased?

Why don’t I spend time discussing eastern religions?

Everyone knows why Red. Its because of your one eyed sources and Islam literally being the only threat to Israel. The videos you have shared in the past is all the proof one needs here. Lets face it. The "Eastern" religions are no threat to the devil so he literally ignores them and you are right there, in lock step.

---skipping video---

As for Islam, I would suggest to you that Muhammad is the prophet of the worlds largest Christian sect

That's an interesting way to view it and an unexpected one at that. Maybe you are one that admits the Prophet Muhammad is in the Bible? But this is an old argument so i digress.

The reality is there's only 1 god. Muslims say Adam was Muslim, i guess you can attribute bias there. But what we do know is that Abraham was not a Christian or a Jew.

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah]. And he was not of the polytheists. (3:67 Quran)

As the verse highlights a Muslim is basically one that submits to Gods will. But as i was saying. There has only ever been and will only ever be 1 god. Adam taught this religion to his followers, as did Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, ect, ect, ect. All the prophets of the Father brought the exact same message. Which is essentially the 10 commandments.

Now its interesting to me knowing the Jews come before you.. but somehow Islam is an offshoot of Christianity? Is Christianity also an offshoot of Judaism? If not why not?

No, the reality is Christians went astray just like the Jews did and if you need proof of this. Well, do you eat pork even though your book forbids it in 32 verses? But we all know the major deviance is in the worship of the prophet Jesus. When the man told you he can do nothing what so ever without God Red... he meant it.

So the Almighty sent down more revelation with the Quran. Exactly like he did when he sent down the Injeel reinforcing the Torah. While many reject old testament, Jesus says he did not come to abolish the old law.

Now a good argument here is why didn't the Almighty protect the previous books from deviation? For example John 3:16? I honestly have no clue and was reminded recently that we don't question God. Indeed He has complete knowledge and knows what we don't.

Take away the death and resurrection of Jesus and you take away the atonement

There is no atonement Red. As i have highlighted multiple times Jesus could not even save himself. Every single soul will bear the weight of its sin. How is it fair at all if someone else should answer for your misdeeds? If you went out and raped someone and i was held accountable, truly that would be an unjust deity.

You will pay for every evil deed as will i, and as we all know I'm no where close to perfect. I have no shot at heaven what so ever other then Gods mercy.

I have no issue with you personally but perhaps my rejection of Islam makes you by de facto opponent. Regardless I hope you understand the spirit in which I offer my disagreement.

I have no issue with you either other then the slander you direct at my religion and there are many examples.

I've never ignored you here (which is saying something) but i can't say the same for the other trinnys here. Take Maldarker for example, who has recently earned a place on my ignore list when he felt the need to take our private conversation and make it public. Now whoever wants can go back and read what he shared. Theres nothing in it i would want to hide. My issue with it is he made something private, public. Which is an major betrayal from where i sit. Literally a knife in my back. Sure, many don't have to agree, but if you were in my shoes, you'd all see the issue here.

For someone to put a knife in the back of another.. do they come off as God fearing Red? To do it so easily, without remorse, do they come off as pious? To this day I'm sure he defends it but i don't care to see it.

Whats interesting about this event is like 2 days before, i was asking another here why God does not guide the trinnys, and i was told (rightly so) that we don't question God. As i have mentioned above He knows the unseen and has complete knowledge. So this open act of betrayal to me.. for me.. was literally a sign.

While you Red..have a hard time posting without making some slander, comment, whatever about Islam. We don't need to go beyond this thread. On a topic where we'd agree you still take your shots. In this sense you are exactly like Freeman. I have posted the verse before but God does not guide those who block his path, while you take in plenty of youtube videos that can't help but attack Islam... and it shows.

It really says alot when someone defends Israel today, when they literally produce nothing but evil.

But no i don't hate you. I never did. Like a video i posted recently in an Islamic thread, where the tattooed brother says... "I want jannah (paradise) for everyone. I want it for you. I want it for me". Yet when i see people drowning and call to the truth, i am literally called a bully. So what can i do? God guides whomever he wills.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Why do you need videos? Do you think people actually watch them Red?

I post up videos because that’s how I like to consume information, being a more “audio-visual” learner. Everyone is different.

The first one is best watched as that would be the only way to process the events, the second is an exposition of the particular worm that David alludes to in Psalm 22, a psalm that bears more than a passing resemblance to the crucifixion (a form of punishment that had not at that time been invented).


The Life Cycle of the Crimson Worm
The Crimson Worm (scientific name: coccus ilicis or kermes ilicis) looks more like a grub than a worm. In the lifecycle of this worm is where the remez is found. And it points to the work of Jesus on the cross.

When the female crimson worm is ready to lay her eggs, which happens only once in her life, she climbs up a tree or fence and attaches herself to it. With her body attached to the word, a hard crimson shell forms. It is a shell so hard and so secured to the wood that it can only be removed by tearing apart the body which would kill the worm.

The female worm lays her eggs under her body, under the protective shell. When the larvae hatch, they remain under the mother’s protective shell so the baby worms can feed on the living body of the mother worm for three days. After three days, the mother worm dies and her body excretes a crimson or scarlet dye that stains the wood to which she is attached, and also her baby worms. The baby worms remain crimson-colored for their entire lives. Thereby, they are identified as crimson worms.

On day four, the tail of the mother worm pulls up into her head, forming a heart-shaped body that is no longer crimson but has turned into a snow-white wax that looks like a patch of wool on the tree or fence. It then begins to flake off and drop to the ground looking like snow.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet [shaniy – root word of tola’ath], they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson [tola’ath], they shall be as wool.

The Body of the Tola’ath
In biblical times, the red dye excreted from the Crimson Worm (Ps 22:6, Isa 1:18, Isa 66:24) was used in the High Priest’s robe and probably for red dye used on ram’s skins to create the covering of the Tabernacle in the wilderness. Uses of this red dye continue today. The worm’s body and shell, while still red and attached to the tree, are scraped off and used to make what is called “Royal Red Dye.” The waxy material is used to make high-quality shellac, which is used in the Middle East as a wood preserver. And the remains of the Crimson Worm are also used in medicines that help in regulating the human heart.

What Does Psalm 22 Mean: “I am a Worm”
Was Jesus a “Crimson Worm” on the cross? In typology, yes!

• Just as the mother worm attaches herself to the tree or fence, Jesus put himself on a wooden cross, a type of “tree.” And Jesus willingly allowed the nails to be driven into His hands (1 John 3:16). However, it wasn’t the nails that held Him on the cross. It was His desire to fulfill the purpose and plan of God the Father to redeem man from sin (Gal 1:4).
• Just as the mother worm attaching herself to a tree is part of God’s design for the worm’s lifecycle, so also, it was God’s plan, His design, to send His Son to be attached to a tree, a wooden cross, to die (2 Tim 1:9, 1 Pet 1:20).
• Just as the mother worm, when crushed, excretes a crimson, scarlet dye that both covers the baby worms and stains, or marks, them, Jesus was also bruised, or crushed, for our iniquities (Isa 53:5). His scourgings, and the nails that were driven into his hands and feet, brought forth His crimson, scarlet blood that both washes away our sins (Rev 1:5) and marks us as His own (Eph 2:13).
• Finally, just as the baby worm is dependent on the mother worm for the crimson dye to give it life and to mark it, a repentant sinner must depend on the blood of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins, to receive new life, and to be marked as His own (Acts 4:12, 1 Pet 1:18-19).

A Little Red Worm
In expounding on Psalm 22:6 (“But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people”), Charles Spurgeon wrote:

“There is a little red worm which seems to be nothing else but blood when it is crushed. It seems all gone except a blood-stain. And the Savior, in the deep humiliation of His spirit, compares Himself to that little red worm. How true it is that ‘He made Himself of no reputation’ for our sakes! He emptied Himself of all His Glory, and, if there is any glory natural to manhood, He emptied Himself even of that! Not only the glories of His Godhead, but also the honors of His Manhood He laid aside that it might be seen that ‘though He was rich, yet for our sakes He became poor.’”

Jesus became poor. And in typology, having the sins of the world upon Himself, Jesus became like a worm, like a lowly crimson worm, hanging on a tree. (Job 25:6 and Isa 41:14 reveal the typology of sinful man as a worm.)

Nature Declares the Glory of God
Look around and see all the whispers of Jesus. From the beauty of God’s creation — the sun, the moon, the stars, the land, the seas, the animals, and especially mankind — everything testifies of our amazing God. In the spring, we see new life emerging, and in the summer, we feel the warmth of the sun. In the fall, the colors of God’s “paintbrush” are vivid, and in the winter, the world rests in a blanket of white. All this is the lifecycle of nature. And all is a gift from God.

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be [white] as wool.” Isaiah 1:18

 

[Daze]

thanks for your response

in the area i live, if one reads the bible, they are labelled christian, people call me that sometimes, because i read the bible and pray

That's funny, in the area i grew up people were called Christian basically because they were white. There are alot of churches in my home town but as I've mentioned in other threads, alot of drug addicts to. People pretty far from God.

To this day i see people claim Christianity when they haven't been in a church in decades. Its like their whiteness and English tongue make them Christian?

to be honest i've never read the quran, this forum helps me to learn, some day i should read the quran

i dont follow organized religions, my dad was baptist, my mother anglican, my friends were catholic, some were jehova witness', i saw alot of arguing, thought was weird, if they were all into god, why argue, i live outside a 1 horse town, only within the past 2 years we started having different religions arrive, muslims and sikhs, hindus, etc, i know youve mentioned in the past you were a christian for 30 years, and how you saw alot of racism from the christians, personally i dont want to fight with anyone, i live outside of town, in the sticks, i try to get along with everyone

Ah, seems we have more in comment then i thought. As far as the Quran goes, if you sincerely look for truth God will guide you to it. It really depends if he opens your heart to it or not. As many read the Quran and get nothing from it, while others will have a question, open the Quran and find the answer, as if the book was talking to them specifically.

My mother was a Jehovah's witness and my dad was a Baptist. To this day i have 2 Muslim sisters, 1 brother.. idk. he's a hard core Jesus worshiper.. one of those churches that talk in tongues which is literally demons... Another brother and sister who are JW's and 1 sister who is agnostic. So ya.. alot of arguments.

I'm from a 1 horse town myself, 100% Christian. I went "home" when my mother passed away in 2019 but i think the town is much the same. Didn't look like anything changed.

I don't like to fight with people either.. but a story that I've told before.. and will summarize quickly..

There was once an evil town the Almighty ordered to be destroyed. The angels told God there was a pious man in the city who worshiped day and night. God said he knew best who was there and to start with the pious individual. Why? Because he never left his house. He had what was good (the religion) and never shared it with anyone.

If i don't share knowledge God has given me then i will be held responsible. Also this life is very short. Compared to the next, its literally a rain drop into the ocean. The next life will see eternal bliss or eternal torment. If you see a man drowning aren't you compelled to put a hand out? I know i am, even though those i am trying to reach shove their fingers into their ears.

Islam has the proofs, proof upon proof. But you can look at people like Freeman and realize they will never see it.

In the end it is God who guides.

only reason i asked the question to freeman, i was reading through the thread, and stuck out to me that he said about people reading the quran, that was - corporate fictional organized religion that deceitfully calls itself "Islam" , just stuck out to me, because like i mentioned people call me christian because i read the bible, and they call ones who read the quran, followers of islam

Freeman says alot of garbage and has been put away multiple times. People just get tired of it and he keeps speaking. It comes to a point where you either ignore the person or spend 10 pages debating stupidity. I mean the man says the Prophet Muhammad was never in Mecca. He says alot of stupid things but that one really takes the cake.

we are on the same side, god the creator's side, our foe is satan

take care

One would think, but many out there actually work for the devil. Whether they realize it or not.

End of the day there is only 1 path to God. Everything else is deviance.

If you want to find the truth, there is no better way then prostrating and asking God himself to show it to you. Funny enough people have called me deceitful for suggesting they pray the way Jesus prayed, face to ground. it is what it is.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

That's funny, in the area i grew up people were called Christian basically because they were white. There are alot of churches in my home town but as I've mentioned in other threads, alot of drug addicts to. People pretty far from God.

To this day i see people claim Christianity when they haven't been in a church in decades. Its like their whiteness and English tongue make them Christian?


Ah, seems we have more in comment then i thought. As far as the Quran goes, if you sincerely look for truth God will guide you to it. It really depends if he opens your heart to it or not. As many read the Quran and get nothing from it, while others will have a question, open the Quran and find the answer, as if the book was talking to them specifically.

My mother was a Jehovah's witness and my dad was a Baptist. To this day i have 2 Muslim sisters, 1 brother.. idk. he's a hard core Jesus worshiper.. one of those churches that talk in tongues which is literally demons... Another brother and sister who are JW's and 1 sister who is agnostic. So ya.. alot of arguments.

I'm from a 1 horse town myself, 100% Christian. I went "home" when my mother passed away in 2019 but i think the town is much the same. Didn't look like anything changed.

I don't like to fight with people either.. but a story that I've told before.. and will summarize quickly..

There was once an evil town the Almighty ordered to be destroyed. The angels told God there was a pious man in the city who worshiped day and night. God said he knew best who was there and to start with the pious individual. Why? Because he never left his house. He had what was good (the religion) and never shared it with anyone.

If i don't share knowledge God has given me then i will be held responsible. Also this life is very short. Compared to the next, its literally a rain drop into the ocean. The next life will see eternal bliss or eternal torment. If you see a man drowning aren't you compelled to put a hand out? I know i am, even though those i am trying to reach shove their fingers into their ears.

Islam has the proofs, proof upon proof. But you can look at people like Freeman and realize they will never see it.

In the end it is God who guides.





Freeman says alot of garbage and has been put away multiple times. People just get tired of it and he keeps speaking. It comes to a point where you either ignore the person or spend 10 pages debating stupidity. I mean the man says the Prophet Muhammad was never in Mecca. He says alot of stupid things but that one really takes the cake.


One would think, but many out there actually work for the devil. Whether they realize it or not.

End of the day there is only 1 path to God. Everything else is deviance.

If you want to find the truth, there is no better way then prostrating and asking God himself to show it to you. Funny enough people have called me deceitful for suggesting they pray the way Jesus prayed, face to ground. it is what it is.

^ fascinating background @Daze

I can see where the sense of “confused Christianity” comes from - how did a Baptist and a JW ever come to marry? I don’t mean to pry, but I would find that a gulf too wide for me…

 

[Daze]

^ fascinating background @Daze

I can see where the sense of “confused Christianity” comes from - how did a Baptist and a JW ever come to marry? I don’t mean to pry, but I would find that a gulf too wide for me…

I'll get to your top post later btw. Its longer so if there's anything of value, I'll come back to it.

Far as your question here, idk. I was the last of 7 kids. My father was in his 30's when i came into the world. I know my dad was from Kentucky and my mother from Chicago. Really no idea how they met.

Far as the confused goes.. what do you expect with 40,000 sects? Which you seem to frequently ignore.

I agree with you Red. Christianity is one confused religion, with all 40,000 swearing they have the one and only truth.

Just sit back..

.... and picture that.



40,000... Every single one.. having the key to the one... and only... single truth.

 

[A Freeman]

On the subject of being dazed and confused...

Is it actually crazy to state the truth that Muhammad was NEVER in Mecca, because there is no actual evidence (Scriptural, historical and/or archaeological) that Mecca even existed during the lifetime of Muhammad?

Where did God tell us in His Koran/Quran that Muhammad was actually living?

Sura 37:133-138
37:133. So also was Lot among those sent (by Us).
37:134. Behold, We delivered him and his adherents, all
37:135. Except an old woman who was among those who lagged behind (Gen. 19:26):
37:136. Then We destroyed the rest.
37:137. VERILY, YE PASS BY THEIR (SITES), BY DAY -
37:138. AND BY NIGHT: WILL YE NOT UNDERSTAND?

Since when was Sodom and Gomorrah within a daily stroll of Mecca? Or within a night's journey of Jerusalem?

Surah 17. Isra', The Night Journey, Children Of Israel

Sura 17:1. Glory to ("I AM") Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from a place where he was praying to the Holiest Place, whose Precincts We did bless (Mt. Moriah),- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

What IS crazy is calling both God and Jesus liars, when both God and Jesus have repeatedly told us that Jesus was crucified and raised by God from the dead (please see the mountain of evidence already provided within this thread concerning the Scriptural, historical and archaeological evidence of the life, death by crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, vs. one obviously misunderstood verse).

 

[Maldarker]

I find it ironic that the guy who thinks he knows it all is using the monikier DAZE. Subconcious telling you something?
noun

1. a state of stunned confusion or bewilderment
   
   

 

[TrollingTroubles]

honest question - if someone reads the bible kjv, they're religion is called christianity, if someone reads the quran, what would they're religion be called?

(just trying to understand)

No.
If someone adheres to the laws of said religion, worships in the manner it teaches and believes in its core theology and studies it’s holy scripture, it makes them a follower of it.
Far as I can tell, ToT is a Christian posing as a Muslim. I could be wrong, but this is how it looks to me.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

No.
If someone adheres to the laws of said religion, worships in the manner it teaches and believes in its core theology and studies it’s holy scripture, it makes them a follower of it.
Far as I can tell, ToT is a Christian posing as a Muslim. I could be wrong, but this is how it looks to me.

You have time to post more lies about me here while also attempting to promote your perverse agenda of child sex-trafficking, r*pe and murder... time to post more false-narrative accusations that I am not a Muslim... yet still havent found the courage to show up here: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/max-blumenthal-grayzone-exposed.9694/ and confront a very real propaganda network designed to result in the murder of millions of Muslims. You lie about Muslims and insult them, drive non-Muslims away from the faith, engage in base vulgarity, promote your horrible child-predator agenda, the lst goes on and on. Yet you cant bring yourself to show up in a thread where your supposed Cap'n Save-Em-All routine might actualy do some good for the cause of Muslims? You expose yourself, nothing more.

 

[Daze]

Far as I can tell, ToT is a Christian posing as a Muslim. I could be wrong, but this is how it looks to me.

There is probably alot of truth to this. But definitely not a Unitarian. Never in my life have i met a Muslim who focuses all of their attention on attacking Islams prophet (saw) and every single Muslim they come across. Tempo loves to mention AIsha's age (ra) but has he ever once mentioned 80 year old Joesph and 12 year old Mary? I've never seen it.

Bears repeating, doesn't it? Why is this pro anti-p***phile not bothered by an 80 year old man with a 12 year old girl?

ToT has not shown mercy to a single Muslim here. You often see him putting the laugh emoji on other Muslims posts.

All the trinitarians seem to love him, even though they won't ever admit they'd also reject anyone claiming Christianity who can't help but insult Jesus and every Christian they would come across.

End of the day we are all returning to the Maker and will answer for what we have done.

Nothing is hidden from the Almighty. Even the thoughts in your own head he is fully aware of. سبحن الله

 

[TempestOfTempo]

You are noting that I am more concerned with cleaning up the Muslims mess than confronting others on theirs... like it is a bad thing lol

There are a number of Muslims here who I engage with in polite/positive communication, some in the same threads you complain about. Your ridiculous lies expose the fact that you only see yourself and your fellow cultists as Muslims, and nobody else apparently.

You and your ilk still refuse to show up here: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/max-blumenthal-grayzone-exposed.9694/ hmmmm... aint that curious?

You and your clown car keep promoting your false pedo-agenda, yet havent produced ONE example of the sahaba engaging in marriage via your blasphemous 6-9 age bracket for children to be "married" (a.k.a sold/trafficked) to grown men.

You think you are getting under my skin when you post, but honesty its very important that yall continue to do so... because you expose yourselves and "Muslims" like you. You cant seem to help from doing so almost everytime you post, and you cant seem to just walk away... so by all means, keep your ship of fools sailing along here for any/everyone to witness for themselves.

 

[Terminator Resistance]

Tempo loves to mention AIsha's age (ra) but has he ever once mentioned 80 year old Joesph and 12 year old Mary? I've never seen it.

That is a total lie. No age is mentionned in the Bible for their wedding. They most likely got married when they were both teens as that was common back then.

 

[Daze]

That is a total lie. No age is mentionned in the Bible for their wedding. They most likely got married when they were both teens as that was common back then.

Really? Is this news to you? I highly suggest you educate yourself. Unless you'd like me to highlight everything?

I may be alot of things TR, but a liar is not one of them.

Bible: 12 year old Mary married 90 Year old Joseph [Paedophilia]

Originally Posted from the Link below: I recently wrote a few articles on the history of marriage i.e., when girls were married off. This article examines how old Joseph the Carpenter was when he m…

discoverthetruefacts.wordpress.com

 

[Daze]

That is a total lie. No age is mentionned in the Bible for their wedding. They most likely got married when they were both teens as that was common back then.

While we are on the subject TR would you like to discuss the Hebrew word taph used n the bible?

Spoiler alert, it means pre-pubeserant. i think you know where I'm going with this, but we can explore it if you like.