Did Jesus Exist? All Scholars Agree He “Certainly” Existed

Yahda

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So no one, Muslim or Christian finds it strange that not even God mentioned Jesus in the OT the HEBREW book? Immanuel was a sign for King Ahaz, according to Proverbs it was “wisdom” referenced as a she/her who was there in the beginning. When man was made in “our” image the image was “man & woman”, Isaiah 53 was written about a particular prophet who I won’t mention, it clearly states in Ezekiel that when it’s all said and done that King David would be king again…and the list goes on…However God did mention a falling angel that wanted to take his place and sit above his throne, who wanted people to worship him opposed to worshiping the True God known as the bright morning star also referenced in revelation 22:16.

You only get this non sense from the GREEK writings and we all know about those GREEK gods. Some people can’t see the forest for the trees but that’s ok I guess?
 
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TempestOfTempo

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@Terminator Resistance correctly/truthfully stated that neither the age of Mary nor the age of Joseph is recorded anywhere in the Bible. Almost immediately, Lucifer/Satan/Iblis (Satan is referred to as Iblis in the Koran/Quran) responded by having one of his minions quote some fictitious made-up source, to try to counter the truth just spoken.

As you've correctly/truthfully stated, there is no mention of Aisha, nor of Muhammad marrying Aisha, nor of their ages when this alleged marriage supposedly took place to be found anywhere in the Koran/Quran. It was a made-up story from the totally fabricated and self-contradictory hadith. Anyone who believes the hadith DOES hold it to be more sacred than the Koran/Quran, which is "shirk"/idolatry (attempting to make a partner with God out of something or someone else -- effectively blaspheming the Holy Spirit/severing the connection to God).

The Koran/Quran COMMANDS its readers to read, study and put into practice the Old Covenant and New Covenant teachings. The Koran NEVER tells anyone to read the hadith. But what is even more satanic is that the hadith cons people into believing the Bible has been corrupted, and thus cannot be trusted, even though the Koran/Quran plainly states that can NEVER happen.

Sick individuals, on a very short leash to Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, will do his bidding every chance they get. This is what people NEED to learn to resist to keep from being misled. If everyone was doing that, there would be no more division among any of us, as everyone would be striving to DO God's Will, by following Christ's Example, exactly as it says throughout the Old Covenant, New Covenant, and the Koran.
Jesus, Moses, Muhammed... how many examples do we need? Its not that we dont have sufficient reference material, its that people like TrollingFor Fitna and Dingngbat Daze and the rest of their ilk would rather follow their own inventions rather than any established, monotheistic code of ethics.
 
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A Freeman

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So no one, Muslim or Christian finds it strange that not even God mentioned Jesus in the OT the HEBREW book?
Jesus is not just a name but a TITLE. That title literally means "YHWH Saves", which is frequently reduced to "Saviour". YHWH (Hebrew) is "I AM" in English.

The miracle birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary IS prophesied in the Old Covenant (Isa. 7:14), fulfilled and recorded in the New Covenant (Matt. 1:18-23, Luke 1:27-35), and CONFIRMED in the Koran (Sura 3:42-47, 19:16-37). We literally changed the way we keep time on this planet because of this miracle. Who then could do more wrong than to ignore such Clear Signs from our Lord?

B.C. = Before Christ
A.D. = Anno Domini = in the year of our Lord

Similarly, the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is prophesied in the Old Covenant (Ps. 22, Isa. 53:1-11, Dan. 9:25-27, Zech. 11:11-13) and New Covenant (Matt. 12:39-40, 20:17-19, 26:2, Mark 9:31, 10:32-34), fulfilled and recorded in the New Covenant (Matt. 27, Mark 15:17-16:8, John 19:14-21:25), and CONFIRMED in the Koran (Sura 3:55, 4:157-158, 6:122, 19:33-34).

We also have recorded in the Bible, which the Koran was sent to CONFIRM (not to contradict), a list of eyewitnesses to both the crucifixion and resurrection (posted on the first page of this thread).

Old Covenant verses cited above, for those interested:
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (God with us).

Psalm 22 (see Matthew 27)
22:1 <To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.> My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me? [Why art Thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring?
22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but Thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
22:3 But Thou [art] holy, [O Thou] that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
22:4 Our fathers trusted in Thee: they trusted, and Thou didst deliver them.
22:5 They cried unto Thee, and were delivered: they trusted in Thee, and were not confounded.
22:6 But I [am] a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised by the people.
22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, [saying],
22:8 He trusted on the "I AM" [that] He would deliver him: let Him deliver him, seeing He delighted in him.
22:9 But Thou [art] He that took me out of the womb: Thou didst make me hope [when I was] upon my mother's breasts.
22:10 I was cast upon Thee from the womb: Thou [art] my God from my mother's belly.
22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble [is] near; for [there is] none to help.
22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong [bulls] of Bashan have beset me round.
22:13 They gaped upon me [with] their mouths, [as] a ravening and a roaring lion.
22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and Thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me.
22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
22:19 But be not Thou far from me, O "I AM": O my strength, haste Thee to help me.
22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my only one from the power of the dog.
22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for Thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22:22 I will declare Thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise Thee.
22:23 Ye that fear the "I AM", praise Him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify Him; and fear Him, all ye the seed of Israel.
22:24 For He hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath He hid His face from him; but when he cried unto Him, He heard.
22:25 My praise [shall be] of Thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear Him.
22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the "I AM" [they] that seek Him: your heart shall live for ever.
22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the "I AM": and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before Thee.
22:28 For the Kingdom [is] the "I AM"'s: and He [is] the Governor among the nations (of this prison planet).
22:29 All [they that be] fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before Him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
22:30 A seed shall serve Him; it (the human body Jesus) shall be accounted to the Lord (Christ) for a generation (40 years).
22:31 They shall come, and shall declare His Righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that He hath done [this].

Isaiah 53:1-11
53:1 Who hath believed Our report? and to whom is the Arm of the "I AM" revealed?
53:2 For he shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him.
53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a "man of sorrows", and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed (Matthew 27).
53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the "I AM" hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of My people was he stricken.
53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.
53:10 Yet it pleased the "I AM" to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the "I AM" shall prosper in his hand.
53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by His Knowledge shall My righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Daniel 9:25-27
9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the Commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and The Sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
9:27 And he shall confirm The Covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations He shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation (the "Lake of Hell-Fire"), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Zechariah 11:11-13
11:11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon Me knew that it was The Word (John 1:1, 14) of the "I AM".
11:12 And I said unto them, If it be good in your eyes, give Me My price; and if not, refrain. So they weighed for My price thirty pieces of silver (Matthew 27:3-7).
11:13 And the "I AM" said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was priced at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in The House of the "I AM".

Immanuel was a sign for King Ahaz, according to Proverbs it was “wisdom” referenced as a she/her who was there in the beginning.
According to whom please?

The sign given by THE LORD GOD HIMSELF was the prophetic announcement of the birth of Jesus to the virgin body of Mary, and it was given to the entire world hundreds of years in advance. Ahaz didn't even ask for the sign (see Isaiah 7:10-12).

What does wisdom being referred to as a she/her have to do with any of this? THERE IS NO QUEEN OF HEAVEN (Jer. 44:17-25, Sura 53:16-21). referring to a boat as a she/her doesn't actually mean it's female anymore than referring to wisdom as a she/her makes it female.

When man was made in “our” image the image was “man & woman”,
God (our Heavenly Father) and ALL of the angels have MALE NAMES because the male role is that of protector, provider and spiritual role model.

Woman was taken out of man, for the man, to be his helper (a supportive role). That's why those who are called, chosen and faithful to Christ (God's Anointed ONE) are referred to as His "Bride". A bride is supposed to be true and faithful to her husband, in a supporting role.

Genesis 1:26-27
1:26 And God said, Let us make MAN in Our image, and teach HIM to be like Us: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created MAN in His [Own] image, in the Image of God created He HIM; male and female created He THEM.

Genesis 2:18 And the "I AM" God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet FOR him.

Genesis 2:22-23
2:22 And the rib, which the "I AM" God had taken from man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man.
2:23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man (wo means take out).

Isaiah 53 was written about a particular prophet who I won’t mention,
Jesus. The "man of sorrows", whose SOUL (Christ) was made an offering for sin by God Himself ("the Lamb of God").

it clearly states in Ezekiel that when it’s all said and done that King David would be king again…
The name "David" is Hebrew and means "Well-Beloved" in English. Ezekiel 34:23 is therefore obviously referring to Christ, Whom God has promised to give the throne of David (Ezek. 21:26-27, Luke 1:32).

Ezekiel 34:23 And I will set up One shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, [even] My "Well-Beloved" servant; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

Matthew 3:16-17
3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him (the returning of the mantle - 2 kings 2:13):
3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son*, in whom I am well pleased.

*The Messiah/Christ (Word of God) INSIDE Jesus, the son of Mary.

John 10:7-11
10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have Life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
10:11 I am the Good Shepherd: the Good Shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

King David had already been dead for several hundred years when the prophecy in Ezekiel was written, so it couldn't possibly have been referring to king David, and should not have been left untranslated.

and the list goes on…
What list?

However God did mention a falling angel that wanted to take his place and sit above his throne,
Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, aka the devil, red dragon, serpent, etc. (Isaiah 14:12-17, Rev. 12:3-4, 7-9, Sura 7:11-24, Sura 15:30-44, Sura 17:61-65).

who wanted people to worship him opposed to worshiping the True God
Yes, Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, who DECEIVETH THE WHOLE WORLD, including you.

known as the bright morning star also referenced in revelation 22:16.
The Morning Star is a PLANET. It is the first Light to appear in the sky every night, and the last to disappear at dawn.

It is Christ, NOT Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, Who is referred to as the Morning Star, because the Morning Star is His Home, just as it is home to ALL of the angels of Heaven. And just as it WAS home to Lucifer, before Lucifer gathered a third of the angels of heaven into his army, and staged a coup attempt against God. That's why Lucifer and his angels (those who fought with Lucifer in the war against God and His Anointed One) were cast out TO THE EARTH, and are currently being held here, awaiting Judgment Day.

So you have it exactly backwards about this Scripture as well, and are speaking ill of God's "Well-Beloved" Servant, which is extremely unwise.

You only get this non sense from the GREEK writings and we all know about those GREEK gods. Some people can’t see the forest for the trees but that’s ok I guess?
Interestingly, Syro-Aramaic (Syriac) -- the language of the Arabs and of the original Koran/Quran -- has Greek influences, as both were spoken in the Christian communities in Syria (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_language). In Greek, the word “ἄγγελος” (ου, ὁ) is defined as a messenger and as an angel, so The Messenger of God is synonymous with The Angel of God (see: https://www.biblehub.com/greek/32.htm) in the original Hebrew (e.g. Exod. 3:1-3; see also: Rev. 1:1).
 

TrollingTroubles

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There is a thread regarding Aisha's age for all to see. You and your ilk already showed up there and pulled your usual routine which (once again) exposed yourselves as Islamic charlatans.
and here I was thinking you was claiming to do all the “exposing”.

that thread of yours doesn’t go any way to determining anything except on thing. That you have a giant boner for the topic.

personally I don’t care for the topic, I just wanted to show you how flawed your research, reasoning and zealotry was there. And yes, you are right, it’s there for all to see/read. And I’m quite happy to leave it there.
When you couldnt hold your ground via faulty arguments and compromised historical/theological "interpretations" you resorted to vulgarity, personal attacks and lies/accusation.
I’m pretty sure you did more of that than anyone in that thread but you’re such a cry baby. If anyone decided to give you a taste of your own medicine, you started to cry foul. I mean, seriously wtf!!! You need your head checked!
Now in this thread which should have been a place for all to discuss (and ultimately prove) that Jesus did exist, you and your ped-agenda crowd come in and attack with random distractions which you insert into the dialog for the purpose of feeding your own lusts for drama and confrontation.
No one in this thread denied the existence of Jesus. I’m not even sure why the thread exists because I haven’t come across even one post in this forum claiming Jesus never existed. The thread therefore naturally went off topic and into the denial of the crucifixion and resurrection which is Islamic teaching. Of course the Muslims of this forum would post to set the record straight but here’s you, a supposed Muslim quoting bible like your life depended on it. And that’s mashup maboy!

You are not fooling anyone but yourselves and you certainly are not giving readers a good impression of Islam or Muslims.
Yeah ok! I’m sorry that’s how you feel, but being a Christian yourself I’m certain you don’t really give a crap.

But what will be, will be... you are serving your function by showing the dysfunction/provocation and ultimately, blasphemy which is the hallmark of the vast majority of born-and-bred Muslims and the few lost reverts who roll with you.
You’re denying the ijma? That’s an act of kufr. Surely you would know that if you truly were Muslim but you stink of heavy handed right wing nazi clad Christian rhetoric so I’m not surprised!
 

TempestOfTempo

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and here I was thinking you was claiming to do all the “exposing”.

that thread of yours doesn’t go any way to determining anything except on thing. That you have a giant boner for the topic.

personally I don’t care for the topic, I just wanted to show you how flawed your research, reasoning and zealotry was there. And yes, you are right, it’s there for all to see/read. And I’m quite happy to leave it there.


I’m pretty sure you did more of that than anyone in that thread but you’re such a cry baby. If anyone decided to give you a taste of your own medicine, you started to cry foul. I mean, seriously wtf!!! You need your head checked!

No one in this thread denied the existence of Jesus. I’m not even sure why the thread exists because I haven’t come across even one post in this forum claiming Jesus never existed. The thread therefore naturally went off topic and into the denial of the crucifixion and resurrection which is Islamic teaching. Of course the Muslims of this forum would post to set the record straight but here’s you, a supposed Muslim quoting bible like your life depended on it. And that’s mashup maboy!


Yeah ok! I’m sorry that’s how you feel, but being a Christian yourself I’m certain you don’t really give a crap.



You’re denying the ijma? That’s an act of kufr. Surely you would know that if you truly were Muslim but you stink of heavy handed right wing nazi clad Christian rhetoric so I’m not surprised!
Just keep running from this thread which exposes a murderous anti-Muslim propaganda network... because you are not really here to "defend" Islam or Muslims are you? At best you are here to defend fitna and there is also the possibility that you and your ilk are not actually Muslims in the first place. Lord knows you alienate plenty of posters and readers here from Islam.
 

TrollingTroubles

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Just keep running from this thread which exposes a murderous anti-Muslim propaganda network... because you are not really here to "defend" Islam or Muslims are you? At best you are here to defend fitna and there is also the possibility that you and your ilk are not actually Muslims in the first place. Lord knows you alienate plenty of posters and readers here from Islam.
You have that backwards.
 

Yahda

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709
Jesus is not just a name but a TITLE. That title literally means "YHWH Saves", which is frequently reduced to "Saviour". YHWH (Hebrew) is "I AM" in English.

The miracle birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary IS prophesied in the Old Covenant (Isa. 7:14), fulfilled and recorded in the New Covenant (Matt. 1:18-23, Luke 1:27-35), and CONFIRMED in the Koran (Sura 3:42-47, 19:16-37). We literally changed the way we keep time on this planet because of this miracle. Who then could do more wrong than to ignore such Clear Signs from our Lord?

B.C. = Before Christ
A.D. = Anno Domini = in the year of our Lord

Similarly, the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is prophesied in the Old Covenant (Ps. 22, Isa. 53:1-11, Dan. 9:25-27, Zech. 11:11-13) and New Covenant (Matt. 12:39-40, 20:17-19, 26:2, Mark 9:31, 10:32-34), fulfilled and recorded in the New Covenant (Matt. 27, Mark 15:17-16:8, John 19:14-21:25), and CONFIRMED in the Koran (Sura 3:55, 4:157-158, 6:122, 19:33-34).

We also have recorded in the Bible, which the Koran was sent to CONFIRM (not to contradict), a list of eyewitnesses to both the crucifixion and resurrection (posted on the first page of this thread).

Old Covenant verses cited above, for those interested:
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (God with us).

Psalm 22 (see Matthew 27)
22:1 <To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.> My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me? [Why art Thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring?
22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but Thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
22:3 But Thou [art] holy, [O Thou] that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
22:4 Our fathers trusted in Thee: they trusted, and Thou didst deliver them.
22:5 They cried unto Thee, and were delivered: they trusted in Thee, and were not confounded.
22:6 But I [am] a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised by the people.
22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, [saying],
22:8 He trusted on the "I AM" [that] He would deliver him: let Him deliver him, seeing He delighted in him.
22:9 But Thou [art] He that took me out of the womb: Thou didst make me hope [when I was] upon my mother's breasts.
22:10 I was cast upon Thee from the womb: Thou [art] my God from my mother's belly.
22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble [is] near; for [there is] none to help.
22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong [bulls] of Bashan have beset me round.
22:13 They gaped upon me [with] their mouths, [as] a ravening and a roaring lion.
22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and Thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me.
22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
22:19 But be not Thou far from me, O "I AM": O my strength, haste Thee to help me.
22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my only one from the power of the dog.
22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for Thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22:22 I will declare Thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise Thee.
22:23 Ye that fear the "I AM", praise Him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify Him; and fear Him, all ye the seed of Israel.
22:24 For He hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath He hid His face from him; but when he cried unto Him, He heard.
22:25 My praise [shall be] of Thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear Him.
22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the "I AM" [they] that seek Him: your heart shall live for ever.
22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the "I AM": and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before Thee.
22:28 For the Kingdom [is] the "I AM"'s: and He [is] the Governor among the nations (of this prison planet).
22:29 All [they that be] fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before Him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
22:30 A seed shall serve Him; it (the human body Jesus) shall be accounted to the Lord (Christ) for a generation (40 years).
22:31 They shall come, and shall declare His Righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that He hath done [this].

Isaiah 53:1-11
53:1 Who hath believed Our report? and to whom is the Arm of the "I AM" revealed?
53:2 For he shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him.
53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a "man of sorrows", and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed (Matthew 27).
53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the "I AM" hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of My people was he stricken.
53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.
53:10 Yet it pleased the "I AM" to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the "I AM" shall prosper in his hand.
53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by His Knowledge shall My righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Daniel 9:25-27
9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the Commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and The Sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
9:27 And he shall confirm The Covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations He shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation (the "Lake of Hell-Fire"), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Zechariah 11:11-13
11:11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon Me knew that it was The Word (John 1:1, 14) of the "I AM".
11:12 And I said unto them, If it be good in your eyes, give Me My price; and if not, refrain. So they weighed for My price thirty pieces of silver (Matthew 27:3-7).
11:13 And the "I AM" said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was priced at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in The House of the "I AM".


According to whom please?

The sign given by THE LORD GOD HIMSELF was the prophetic announcement of the birth of Jesus to the virgin body of Mary, and it was given to the entire world hundreds of years in advance. Ahaz didn't even ask for the sign (see Isaiah 7:10-12).

What does wisdom being referred to as a she/her have to do with any of this? THERE IS NO QUEEN OF HEAVEN (Jer. 44:17-25, Sura 53:16-21). referring to a boat as a she/her doesn't actually mean it's female anymore than referring to wisdom as a she/her makes it female.


God (our Heavenly Father) and ALL of the angels have MALE NAMES because the male role is that of protector, provider and spiritual role model.

Woman was taken out of man, for the man, to be his helper (a supportive role). That's why those who are called, chosen and faithful to Christ (God's Anointed ONE) are referred to as His "Bride". A bride is supposed to be true and faithful to her husband, in a supporting role.

Genesis 1:26-27
1:26 And God said, Let us make MAN in Our image, and teach HIM to be like Us: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created MAN in His [Own] image, in the Image of God created He HIM; male and female created He THEM.

Genesis 2:18 And the "I AM" God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet FOR him.

Genesis 2:22-23
2:22 And the rib, which the "I AM" God had taken from man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man.
2:23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man (wo means take out).


Jesus. The "man of sorrows", whose SOUL (Christ) was made an offering for sin by God Himself ("the Lamb of God").


The name "David" is Hebrew and means "Well-Beloved" in English. Ezekiel 34:23 is therefore obviously referring to Christ, Whom God has promised to give the throne of David (Ezek. 21:26-27, Luke 1:32).

Ezekiel 34:23 And I will set up One shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, [even] My "Well-Beloved" servant; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

Matthew 3:16-17
3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him (the returning of the mantle - 2 kings 2:13):
3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son*, in whom I am well pleased.

*The Messiah/Christ (Word of God) INSIDE Jesus, the son of Mary.

John 10:7-11
10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have Life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
10:11 I am the Good Shepherd: the Good Shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

King David had already been dead for several hundred years when the prophecy in Ezekiel was written, so it couldn't possibly have been referring to king David, and should not have been left untranslated.


What list?


Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, aka the devil, red dragon, serpent, etc. (Isaiah 14:12-17, Rev. 12:3-4, 7-9, Sura 7:11-24, Sura 15:30-44, Sura 17:61-65).


Yes, Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, who DECEIVETH THE WHOLE WORLD, including you.


The Morning Star is a PLANET. It is the first Light to appear in the sky every night, and the last to disappear at dawn.

It is Christ, NOT Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, Who is referred to as the Morning Star, because the Morning Star is His Home, just as it is home to ALL of the angels of Heaven. And just as it WAS home to Lucifer, before Lucifer gathered a third of the angels of heaven into his army, and staged a coup attempt against God. That's why Lucifer and his angels (those who fought with Lucifer in the war against God and His Anointed One) were cast out TO THE EARTH, and are currently being held here, awaiting Judgment Day.

So you have it exactly backwards about this Scripture as well, and are speaking ill of God's "Well-Beloved" Servant, which is extremely unwise.


Interestingly, Syro-Aramaic (Syriac) -- the language of the Arabs and of the original Koran/Quran -- has Greek influences, as both were spoken in the Christian communities in Syria (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_language). In Greek, the word “ἄγγελος” (ου, ὁ) is defined as a messenger and as an angel, so The Messenger of God is synonymous with The Angel of God (see: https://www.biblehub.com/greek/32.htm) in the original Hebrew (e.g. Exod. 3:1-3; see also: Rev. 1:1).
Actually there is no Hebrew name for Jesus. It’s Joshua which is one of my favorite prophets. Even the lexicon tells you that’s “it’s the Hebrew name for Joshua however Christian’s use the name for Jesus”. Majority of prophets have the name YAH in their names or El..which all means God something.

Ezekiel
JeremiYAH
HosaYAH
ObidiYAH
IsaiYAH
MichaEL
DaniEL
and the list goes on…

Jesus does not fit any where in the profile nor can any of the names he has lately gone by be found in Hebrew language.
 

A Freeman

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Actually there is no Hebrew name for Jesus. It’s Joshua which is one of my favorite prophets. Even the lexicon tells you that’s “it’s the Hebrew name for Joshua however Christian’s use the name for Jesus”. Majority of prophets have the name YAH in their names or El..which all means God something.

Ezekiel
JeremiYAH
HosaYAH
ObidiYAH
IsaiYAH
MichaEL
DaniEL
and the list goes on…

Jesus does not fit any where in the profile nor can any of the names he has lately gone by be found in Hebrew language.
Did it ever occur to you that the Name "Jesus" was meant to stand out from all of the others?

Every one of the Prophets you listed above wrote of the Coming of The Messiah/Christ, which includes hundreds of prophecies, all of which were fulfilled when God sent His Christ (the Son of God), in the body of Jesus (the son of the virgin Mary) 2000 years ago. Shall we simply ignore all of those prophecies (and the statistical odds of any one individual fulfilling them) because we don't find the Greek name for the son of Mary among the Old Covenant text in Hebrew? Didn't God tell us that NO ONE would know the name Christ would use during what are commonly referred to as Christ's First Coming or His Second Coming?

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of Man which is from heaven.

Matthew 8:27 But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of Man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!

The complete lineage leading up to the virgin birth of Jesus are throughout the entire Old Covenant, which was completed hundreds of years before the birth of Jesus! In fact, the Greek Septuagint (the translation of the Old Covenant from Hebrew into Greek) was also completed 250 years before the birth of Jesus.

Please see the video at the link below, which should illustrate how ridiculous your argument really is, as the Old Covenant prophets beginning with Moses wrote of The Coming of the Messiah/Christ, Whose Coming 2000 years ago in the body of Jesus fulfilled all of the prophecies of that visit, and provided additional prophecies concerning His Second Coming NOW, in a new body with a NEW NAME (Rev. 2:17, 3:12, 19:12).


As previously shared, the name "Jesus" is not just a name, but also a TITLE, which means "YHWH Saves". The Messiah (Hebrew) or Christos (Greek) -- Christ in English -- is also a TITLE, which means "The Anointed One", i.e. the One Whom God Himself anointed IN HEAVEN. Christ's Name in heaven is MichaEL, which is in the list of yours that goes on and on and on about The Messiah/Christ.

The name "MichaEl" means "Who is LIKE God?" Michael is the first; the beginning of God's Creation (Rom. 8:29, Col. 1:12-15, Rev. 3:14). That is why Michael is referred to as the Great Prince (the Prince is the Son of the King and the apparent heir to the Throne) and why He is also the Commander of the Heavenly Host (Army). The same COMMANDER (Prince Michael/Christ) Who visited Joshua, one of your favorite prophets.

Joshua 5:13-15
5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, [Art] thou for us, or for our adversaries?
5:14 And he said, Nay; but [AS] COMMANDER OF THE ARMY OF THE "I AM" am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
5:15 And THE COMMANDER of the "I AM"'s ARMY said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest [is] holy. And Joshua did so.

The same COMMANDER Who put down the coup attempt by Lucifer/Satan/Iblis, that resulted in the banishment of Lucifer/Satan/Iblis and his angels to the maximum security prison planet reform school for the criminally insane that we call "Earth".

Revelation 12:7-9
12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the Earth, and his angels (you - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

Sura 2:97-98
2:97. Say: "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by God's Will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-
2:98. Whoever is an enemy to God and His angels and Apostles, to Gabriel and Michael (Daniel 12:1; Rev. 12:7),- Lo! God is an enemy to those who reject Faith."

If you're still struggling with the name "Jesus" (Saviour), despite the fulfillment of hundreds of Old Covenant prophecies 2000 years ago about The Messiah/Christ, how will you recognize and follow The Messiah/Christ/Commander during His Second Coming (Sura 43:61) as He leads us in this final battle of good versus evil?

Revelation 17:12-14
17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
17:14 These shall make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.

Acts 4:10-12
4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarite, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
4:11 This is the Stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the Head of the Corner.
4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
 
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TrollingTroubles

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Messages
296
Actually there is no Hebrew name for Jesus. It’s Joshua which is one of my favorite prophets. Even the lexicon tells you that’s “it’s the Hebrew name for Joshua however Christian’s use the name for Jesus”. Majority of prophets have the name YAH in their names or El..which all means God something.

Ezekiel
JeremiYAH
HosaYAH
ObidiYAH
IsaiYAH
MichaEL
DaniEL
and the list goes on…

Jesus does not fit any where in the profile nor can any of the names he has lately gone by be found in Hebrew language.
What does that mean then? What are you getting at?
 

Yahda

Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
709
What does that mean then? What are you getting at?
Jesus never existed, and was never mentioned by God outside of him being a false idol/bright morning star. God warned the children of Israel time and time again not to participate in idol worship. You guys are all neck deep in full fledge idol worship courtesy of the Greeks greatest deception.

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no agod but me: for there is no bsaviour cbeside me.

Isaiah 43:3 For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;


There’s literally over a dozen verses where God says stop worshiping false idols. There is no God outside of me. There is no savior. I am God and there is NO ONE ELSE….however Christian’s want Jesus to exist badly, and Muslims don’t care about Jesus or TRUTH. They just need Jesus to exist to give this false impression that the text of the Koran has not being manipulated. So to prove according to God and scriptures of the Old Testament that Jesus never existed would be their worst nightmare and again not because they love or care about them some Jesus. Not because they love truth. It’s the credibility of the book for them. The real people of God want the truth by any means necessary. Even if it ruins the credibility of ANY text. The truth of The Most High is far more important.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Jesus never existed, and was never mentioned by God outside of him being a false idol/bright morning star. God warned the children of Israel time and time again not to participate in idol worship. You guys are all neck deep in full fledge idol worship courtesy of the Greeks greatest deception.

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no agod but me: for there is no bsaviour cbeside me.

Isaiah 43:3 For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;


There’s literally over a dozen verses where God says stop worshiping false idols. There is no God outside of me. There is no savior. I am God and there is NO ONE ELSE….however Christian’s want Jesus to exist badly, and Muslims don’t care about Jesus or TRUTH. They just need Jesus to exist to give this false impression that the text of the Koran has not being manipulated. So to prove according to God and scriptures of the Old Testament that Jesus never existed would be their worst nightmare and again not because they love or care about them some Jesus. Not because they love truth. It’s the credibility of the book for them. The real people of God want the truth by any means necessary. Even if it ruins the credibility of ANY text. The truth of The Most High is far more important.
How would you then explain Benjamin Freedman's letter to Dr. Goldstein when he writes how Pontius Pilate described him in Latin as, "Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudeorum" which meant "Jesus the Nazarene Ruler of the Judeans"?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Messages
12,041
Jesus never existed, and was never mentioned by God outside of him being a false idol/bright morning star. God warned the children of Israel time and time again not to participate in idol worship. You guys are all neck deep in full fledge idol worship courtesy of the Greeks greatest deception.

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no agod but me: for there is no bsaviour cbeside me.

Isaiah 43:3 For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;


There’s literally over a dozen verses where God says stop worshiping false idols. There is no God outside of me. There is no savior. I am God and there is NO ONE ELSE….however Christian’s want Jesus to exist badly, and Muslims don’t care about Jesus or TRUTH. They just need Jesus to exist to give this false impression that the text of the Koran has not being manipulated. So to prove according to God and scriptures of the Old Testament that Jesus never existed would be their worst nightmare and again not because they love or care about them some Jesus. Not because they love truth. It’s the credibility of the book for them. The real people of God want the truth by any means necessary. Even if it ruins the credibility of ANY text. The truth of The Most High is far more important.
What do you make of the hostile witnesses (I.e. people who didn’t badly want Jesus to exist) who actually attest to the life, crucifixion and even resurrection of Jesus?
 

Yahda

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Messages
709
What do you make of the hostile witnesses (I.e. people who didn’t badly want Jesus to exist) who actually attest to the life, crucifixion and even resurrection of Jesus?
The question should be what do I think of Christian’s who barely mention God everything is Jesus Jesus Jesus in fact I wonder what God thinks of it hmm?

Anyway Red Sky you should already know I think nothing of it to answer your question though. I’m not that desperate to have a savior. Once God showed me there was no savior I was quite fine with that. Actually quite relieved. Makes perfect sense.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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The question should be what do I think of Christian’s who barely mention God everything is Jesus Jesus Jesus in fact I wonder what God thinks of it hmm?

Anyway Red Sky you should already know I think nothing of it to answer your question though. I’m not that desperate to have a savior. Once God showed me there was no savior I was quite fine with that. Actually quite relieved. Makes perfect sense.
You don’t like my question so you change it? Come now @Yahda - you are better than that…

Someone once said that to “acquire truth unsullied by desire is a fallacy”. Perhaps we all wish or do not wish to believe certain things. It all gets very emotive. Why I find hostile witnesses so interesting is that they have no vested interest in corroborating a preferred narrative.

As for Christians not being interested in God, you must have met some odd ones!
 

Yahda

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Messages
709
How would you then explain Benjamin Freedman's letter to Dr. Goldstein when he writes how Pontius Pilate described him in Latin as, "Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudeorum" which meant "Jesus the Nazarene Ruler of the Judeans"?
I don’t read letters I read scriptures. That’s the problem now. Too many of you deal with a lot of fluff. Always worried about what every Tom, Peter, Mark and Paul this person and that person said. WHAT DID GOD SAY??. “There is no savior”. Let’s be clear on that part.
 

Yahda

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Joined
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Messages
709
You don’t like my question so you change it? Come now @Yahda - you are better than that…

Someone once said that to “acquire truth unsullied by desire is a fallacy”. Perhaps we all wish or do not wish to believe certain things. It all gets very emotive. Why I find hostile witnesses so interesting is that they have no vested interest in corroborating a preferred narrative.

As for Christians not being interested in God, you must have met some odd ones!
Red I know there is no hope for you. You are going to hold on to this savior for dear life. You know I don’t come here for people like you. I speak in hope that there is someone reading and willing to listen to the words of God. Those who are not stuck in certain ways or beliefs and just want the truth. You don’t quality respectfully. You are who you are.
 
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The question should be what do I think of Christian’s who barely mention God everything is Jesus Jesus Jesus in fact I wonder what God thinks of it hmm?

Anyway Red Sky you should already know I think nothing of it to answer your question though. I’m not that desperate to have a savior. Once God showed me there was no savior I was quite fine with that. Actually quite relieved. Makes perfect sense.
Agreed that we should be worshipping God rather than Jesus, but then Christ himself said that to John:

Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

And Christ in the body of Jesus, said this:

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

In regards to the nonsense that Jesus didn’t exist (assuming you’re being serious) you’re referencing Isaiah, and he was one of the most quoted major prophets by Jesus; in reference to Jesus’s (Christ / Prince Michael, in the body of Jesus) coming to earth:

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
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I don’t read letters I read scriptures. That’s the problem now. Too many of you deal with a lot of fluff. Always worried about what every Tom, Peter, Mark and Paul this person and that person said. WHAT DID GOD SAY??. “There is no savior”. Let’s be clear on that part.
I must say, Yahda, even on the previous iteration of these boards, you have some interesting views. :) FTR, the below is a video which is probably the best summary I've come across of Jesus by Lee Strobel:

The Case for Christ Lee Strobel (1hr and 11 mins)

FTR, I don't worship Jesus, as I believe he's the messiah to show us the way to worship the Heaven Father only and to repent for our sins. It's probably very similar to what @Todd has mentioned on here and gets lambasted for.
 

Maldarker

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Messages
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Anyone forget that as per OT it takes just 2 to convict some one of murder.

How many witnesses of the risen CHRIST....500

And before you go well but.....

There is not a list of all 500, but we do get names of a number of the individuals who did witness the resurrection. The lack of these names can be very frustrating to those from Western backgrounds for several reasons:

  1. We come from a culture where evidence and record-keeping is largely based on specific recorded details and tests.
  2. Our society is largely literate and information is propagated through literacy.
  3. Other portions of Scripture are extremely specific in regards to genealogies and census data.
However, the lack of these names does not mean the account of the resurrection was falsified. During the time of Christ, society was not so dependent on information being passed on through written records, and we actually have more written evidence for the existence and history of Jesus (Yeshua Bar Yosef of Natzeret) than we do for some of his contemporaries (even some of the Caesars).

Large portions of the population (if not the majority) were illiterate, so it was far more common for information to be passed orally, through the spoken word (thus why James 1:22 tells believers to not just hear the Word, but to do what it says). It would have been extremely unusual— suspicious even— for the names of every witness to be recorded. The word of multiple spoken eyewitnesses was not just helpful as evidence— it was crucial. The abundance of so many witnesses who saw Jesus resurrected (including his brother, James, who was previously a skeptic) would have been key to verifying if the stories were true. Also, 500 is a very reasonable number— just enough that he could have reasonably appeared to, but not so many that they could have gotten away with a complete fabrication. Many of these men and women were martyred for their belief, and the fact they were willing to die and face torture without recanting is very significant— if it were entirely a lie, there would have been a great number of these who would have cracked under the pressure and admitted the falsehood of their story. Instead, not one of Jesus’ 11 closest followers cracked. Thomas, in particular, moved from being a man devastated by Jesus’ death (famous for his moment of doubt) to taking the news of Jesus’ resurrection all the way to India before he was martyred. Christianity would likely have died out very quickly had these witnesses not truly believed they saw Jesus resurrected.

NOTE THESE PEOPLE WHO CLAIMED HE HAD RISEN WHERE DOING SO WITH A POSSIBLITY OF DEATH BY THE LEADERS AKA ROME &
SANHEDRIN same ones putting HIM (THE CHRIST) to death in the first place
 
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