Echad or Yachid?

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
10,654
Deuteronomy 6:4

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one* (*echad).

In Hebrew, the word “yachid” indicates numeric oneness, while “echad” indicates compound unity. In the Bible, yachid is never used to describe God. However, in Deuteronomy 6:4, echad is the word used instead. In addition, plural pronouns such as “let US make man in OUR image” are also used in reference to God. If God is triune, these are the words we would expect. As further confirmation, in the Greek (a much more complex language than Hebrew), Jesus quotes the Deuteronomy Scripture in Mark 12:29 and uses the Greek word “hen”, which describes a “unified oneness”, rather than using the word “monos” which means numeric oneness. These examples are simplified for the sake of this discussion, but we can see that Jesus Himself describes God as triune; being one in substance only, but not in person.

https://www.calvaryccm.com/devotions/12-09-2015/are-you-echad-or-yachid
 






Last edited:

DesertRose

Superstar
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
6,083
Jesus peace be upon him is a Prophet, Messenger and the Messiah but he is not The Creator of the Heavens and Earth.
God is not born, does not pray to himself. God does not eat, sleep or go to the washroom.

May God guide you to the truth!
I will pray for you @Red Sky at Morning.

Then the children of Israel began to plot (against Jesus) and God also devised His secret plan, and God is the best of devisers. (It was to carry out His secret plan that) He said, "O Jesus, now I will recall 51 you and raise you up to Myself and cleanse you of (the uncongenial company and the filthy environment of ) those who have rejected you and will set up those who follow you above those who have rejected you 52 till the Day of Resurrection. And ultimately all of you shall return to Me: then I will judge between you in what you differ, and punish with a grievous punishment, both in this world and in the Hereafter, those who have adopted the attitude of disbelief and rejection and they shall have none to help them. And those, who have believed and done good deeds, shall be given their rewards in full. And note it well that God does not like the transgressors." Quran 3:54-57


 






Last edited:

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
6,072
Jesus peace be upon him is a Prophet, Messenger and the Messiah but he is not The Creator of the Heavens and Earth.
God is not born, does not pray to himself. God does not eat, sleep or go to the washroom.


Is it impossible for God to be born as a man at a point in time ?

You see the Name of God is written with two Persons.

So even if one Person was born on earth at a point in time... one Person would still be in Heaven.


No doubt about Jesus acknowledging the Person in Heaven... but let's see what the Scriptures say and what Jesus says about himself.



Isaiah 9 6"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Micah 5 2"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come forth for Me One to be ruler over Israel, whose origins are of old, from the days of eternity."


John 8 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

John 14 8"Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” 9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"



You see Jesus is one of the two Persons in the Name of God according to the prophets and himself.
 






Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
10,654
@DesertRose - I have read the back and forth between Christians and Muslims here. You have heard the Gospel many times and (at present) you choose instead to accept Muhammad's account.

You seem like a really nice person who wishes to know and please God. Nobody ever argued me into faith in Jesus. I met Him and He changed me. Maybe one day you will too.
 






TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
6,072
Explanation:
You use someone who does not agree with Jesus being the Messiah as your point... about what exactly ?

How can you say that Jesus is the Messiah and then point to someone who says Jesus is not the Messiah ?


You are either very dishonest or very ignorant.

Which one is it ?
 






DesertRose

Superstar
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
6,083
You seem like a really nice person who wishes to know and please God. Nobody ever argued me into faith in Jesus. I met Him and He changed me. Maybe one day you will too.
Same goes here Red you seem nice as well.
As you know I believe we will stand in front of the Creator in the day of judgement and we will be answerable for our choices on earth. I pray that you and others look at this issue from every angle possible a hundred times because of the dire ramifications associated with your associating partners with God.
 






Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
10,654
Same goes here Red you seem nice as well.
As you know I believe we will stand in front of the Creator in the day of judgement and we will be answerable for our choices on earth. I pray that you and others look at this issue from every angle possible a hundred times because of the dire ramifications associated with your associating partners with God.
It must be evident to you that the spiritual mind behind the Qur'an intends you to reject the Gospel as presented in the Bible, and Jesus as the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world. This source may be honest and benevolent, seeking to set you on the right path or wicked beyond comprehension, aiming to rob you of eternal life.
 






TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
6,072
I pray that you and others look at this issue from every angle possible a hundred times because of the dire ramifications associated with your associating partners with God.
L0L.

You just don't want to understand.

The very Name of God is written with two Persons !

The prophets of God foretold in the Scriptures that mighty God and everlasting Father would be born to them. A Son !
 






Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
2,094
Deuteronomy 6:4

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one* (*echad).

In Hebrew, the word “yachid” indicates numeric oneness, while “echad” indicates compound unity. In the Bible, yachid is never used to describe God. However, in Deuteronomy 6:4, echad is the word used instead. In addition, plural pronouns such as “let US make man in OUR image” are also used in reference to God. If God is triune, these are the words we would expect. As further confirmation, in the Greek (a much more complex language than Hebrew), Jesus quotes the Deuteronomy Scripture in Mark 12:29 and uses the Greek word “hen”, which describes a “unified oneness”, rather than using the word “monos” which means numeric oneness. These examples are simplified for the sake of this discussion, but we can see that Jesus Himself describes God as triune; being one in substance only, but not in person.

https://www.calvaryccm.com/devotions/12-09-2015/are-you-echad-or-yachid

The truth about God and light:-

Other uses of echad showing that it means ONE not a one group:

Genesis 33:13
But Jacob said to him, “My lord knows that the children are frail, and that the flocks and herds giving suck are a care to me; and if they are overdriven for one(echad) day, all the flocks will die.

Wasnt it one LITERAL day Jacob was referring to?

Numbers 28
but offer a burnt offering, a pleasing odor to the Lord; two young bulls, one(echad) ram, seven male lambs a year old; 28 also their cereal offering of fine flour mixed with oil, three tenths of an ephah for each bull, two tenths for one(echad) ram, 29 a tenth for each of the seven lambs; 30 with one(echad) male goat, to make atonement for you..

Deuteronomy 25:5
If brothers dwell together, and one(echad) of them dies and has no son, the wife of the dead shall not be married outside the family to a stranger; her husband’s brother shall go in to her, and take her as his wife, and perform the duty of a husband’s brother to her.

Of course all these refer to the literal number 1 and not a unity of 1. And theres plenty more that show echad doesnt mean or at the very least doesnt always mean a unity of 1. But this is the extent christianity has to go to make sense of itself. The NT plainly states that its god is 3 in 1. Yet in the OT we have to dig deep, flip over, remix, turn on its side, look under a bale etc... to come to make that same conclusion appear. Heck,Im not sure how 1 to 3 places saying we while everywhere else says "I, myself, ME" means that He's 3 in 1. It all comes out to being selective to make something appear that isnt plainly there (imo of cor
 






Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
10,654
Other uses of echad showing that it means ONE not a one group:

Genesis 33:13
But Jacob said to him, “My lord knows that the children are frail, and that the flocks and herds giving suck are a care to me; and if they are overdriven for one(echad) day, all the flocks will die.

Wasnt it one LITERAL day Jacob was referring to?

Numbers 28
but offer a burnt offering, a pleasing odor to the Lord; two young bulls, one(echad) ram, seven male lambs a year old; 28 also their cereal offering of fine flour mixed with oil, three tenths of an ephah for each bull, two tenths for one(echad) ram, 29 a tenth for each of the seven lambs; 30 with one(echad) male goat, to make atonement for you..

Deuteronomy 25:5
If brothers dwell together, and one(echad) of them dies and has no son, the wife of the dead shall not be married outside the family to a stranger; her husband’s brother shall go in to her, and take her as his wife, and perform the duty of a husband’s brother to her.

Of course all these refer to the literal number 1 and not a unity of 1. And theres plenty more that show echad doesnt mean or at the very least doesnt always mean a unity of 1. But this is the extent christianity has to go to make sense of itself. The NT plainly states that its god is 3 in 1. Yet in the OT we have to dig deep, flip over, remix, turn on its side, look under a bale etc... to come to make that same conclusion appear. Heck,Im not sure how 1 to 3 places saying we while everywhere else says "I, myself, ME" means that He's 3 in 1. It all comes out to being selective to make something appear that isnt plainly there (imo of cor
The point I wanted to draw out is that God could have used the Unitarian "Yachid" yet selected the other word that carried the sense of compound unity. I can't make you see this as some kind of "proof" as I don't think the example falls into that category, but it is one more indication of the connection between Old and New Testaments.
 






DesertRose

Superstar
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
6,083
This source may be honest and benevolent, seeking to set you on the right path or wicked beyond comprehension, aiming to rob you of eternal life.
My sentiments are that many of you acknowledged the paganism incorporated into what Prophet Jesus peace be upon him brought when it crossed over to the Roman lands. Hence the protestant reformation, however, you did not go far enough in getting rid of the compromises. The Creator has reached out again in his final revelation the Quran. This issue is greater than pointing out double meanings in the usage of words. Our sources are sufficient for me however here are some articles for your information. May the Creator make it easy for all of you to see and feel and live this truth. Ameen.

Trinity between Paganism and Christianity
http://www.islamforchristians.com/trinity-paganism-christianity/

Roman Emperors’ Role in the Establishment of Contemporary Christianity
http://www.islamforchristians.com/roman-emperors-role-establishment-contemporary-christianity/

Role of Early Popes and First Council of Nicaea in the Establishment of Contemporary Christianity

http://www.islamforchristians.com/role-early-popes-first-council-nicaea-establishment-contemporary-christianity/
 






Last edited:
Joined
Mar 17, 2017
Messages
2,094
The point I wanted to draw out is that God could have used the Unitarian "Yachid" yet selected the other word that carried the sense of compound unity. I can't make you see this as some kind of "proof" as I don't think the example falls into that category, but it is one more indication of the connection between Old and New Testaments.
But echad, as I showed, is used as unitarian as well. Dont see the connection you're making with that in mind, but that was my input on the subject...
 






Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
3,147
May God accept your efforts DR!

Echad sounds an awful lot like Ahad. Strange how the Christians try to use a strictly monotheistic verse from the OT to validate their polytheism.

I'm glad that Red brought this to our attention though, because now I see another way in which God shines His truth on all of their falsehoods with the revelation of the Quran. In fact, it shows how Quran is Muhaymin over the Scriptures that came before it: affirming the truths in them (like the clear and unequivocal meaning of Deut 6:4) and clarifying the falsehoods that came to be associated with them (like this misguided Christian interpretation). Here is the true meaning of echad, which, I don't think any Torah believing Jew would deny.

Qul Huwallaahu Ahad
Allaahus-Samad
Lam Yalid walam Yulad
wa lam Yakun lahu kufawan Ahad.


Say: He is Allaah, the One.
Allaah - As-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks)
He begets not nor was He begotten
And there is none co-equal or comparable to Him.

With this one small chapter in the Quran, the Almighty nullifies both Red's and Toki's misguided understanding of Him. God is Great!
 






Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
10,654
Genesis 2:24 King James Version (KJV)

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one* flesh.

*Echad

When I got married, I did not become a creature with four legs, four arms and two heads, but I did become "united" with my wife. I can't make anyone who doesn't want to see the implications understand this...
 






Top