Echad or Yachid?

[KoncreteMind]

TROLL.

Ad hominem: attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.

 

[KoncreteMind]

Are we referring to YHVH?

*waves* Hi, KM...

Hey Elsbet...

Im not sure of your question (no trolling ).. Are you asking if Im referring to the tetragammon "YHVH"?

 

[TokiEl]

Ad hominem: attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.

TROLL.

 

[KoncreteMind]

TROLL.

No. That would be whatever god you worship named "hovah". Trolls usually bring ruin/disaster/mischief not the facts I did that you couldnt answer

 

[elsbet]

Hey Elsbet...

Im not sure of your question (no trolling ).. Are you asking if Im referring to the tetragammon "YHVH"?

Yes... the tetragrammaton. I know we sometimes add vowels that could be less than accurate. :/

 

[TokiEl]

No. That would be whatever god you worship named "hovah". Trolls usually bring ruin/disaster/mischief not the facts I did that you couldnt answer

When there really is nothing more to say to someone i will from now on just reply TROLL.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

[sarcasm]What a way to support your position [/sarcasm]



Unlike your fictitious belief that a man can pay/die for your soul, that doesnt fly in regards to what is written in the law and the prophets. And no, Mark, John,Peter, James, Paul, Jude etc... were not prophets in any sense of the word.

Anyways, your avoidance and this thread in general goes along with what I already said in this thread. Christianity for the most part only considers the OT when it benefits their belief system. When it doesnt (such as here specifically God saying what Moses was to tell the Israelites His name was/is) its irrelevant/done away with/ignored. Typical...

You must have met some very odd Christians! I split my reading (actually mainly listening) between the Old and New. The connections between the two are amazing. Nowhere in the OT (apart from the made up book 2 Esdras - thanks btw @bible_student !) does it point specifically to Jesus.

*Its authorship is ascribed to Ezra, a scribe and priest of the 5th century BC, although modern scholarsip places its composition between 70 and 218 AD:

2 Esdras 7

"28 For my son Jesus shall be revealed with those that be with him, and they that remain shall rejoice within four hundred years."

The OT veils the coming Messiah, yet hints in hundreds of ways. If you don't like that approach you will not see what Jesus explained to the two disciples walking on the road to Emmaus:-

 

[KoncreteMind]

Yes... the tetragrammaton. I know we sometimes add vowels that could be less than accurate. :/

It has been while since I looked into it but wasn’t the Tetragrammaton something they used because they didn’t want the Name written or said?

But I was really referencing the Hebrew word for “I am” which is not “hovah” like Token said. In my opinion that is the closest we can get to understanding what His Name is though I don’t think the Hebrew we see today is exactly like the Hebrew from those times.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

"...The ancient Hebrew name for God actually contains the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ. In paleo-Hebrew (the kind of Hebrew used before the Babylonian captivity), not only did each word convey a meaning, but each letter was a “word picture” that conveyed a meaning as well. In fact, when you combine the meanings of all the letters in a particular word in paleo-Hebrew, it actually gives you a much clearer idea of what the word actually means."

https://whygodreallyexists.com/archives/the-ancient-hebrew-name-for-god-contains-the-message-of-the-gospel-of-jesus-christ

 

[TokiEl]

View attachment 15741

https://whygodreallyexists.com/archives/the-ancient-hebrew-name-for-god-contains-the-message-of-the-gospel-of-jesus-christ

But the Phoenician/Paleo-Hebrew script came about after the late bronze age collapse around the 13th century BC. Before that they wrote in what is now called Proto-Sinaitic/Proto-Canaanite script... which looks like Egyptian hieroglyphs.

So in Exodus 6 when God told Moses His name... it is today written like the tetragrammaton in the Aramic/Hebrew script. But back then in the 15th century BC it would be written in what is called Proto-Sinaitic.

A person's hand and a nail and another person.

So the very Name of God in the earliest script tells the story of... one driving a nail into another.

That is how the Name of God was written in the beginning !

 

[KoncreteMind]

When there really is nothing more to say to someone i will from now on just reply TROLL.

You’re the only one trolling here. You said the name was hovah I said it meant mischief/ruin/disaster based on what the strongs says. Here it is again:

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1943

When you couldn’t answer that you started throwing out ad hominems. Which is cool because at this point I’m just seeing how long you’ll go avoiding that which is right in front of you and everyone who can look it up lol

 

[TokiEl]

You’re the only one trolling here. You said the name was hovah I said it meant mischief/ruin/disaster based on what the strongs says. Here it is again:

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1943

When you couldn’t answer that you started throwing out ad hominems. Which is cool because at this point I’m just seeing how long you’ll go avoiding that which is right in front of you and everyone who can look it up lol

Exodus 6 2"And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:

3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."


https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3068.htm

 

[DesertRose]

So busy throwing rocks on our third floor window with speculation about history or prayer directions that are a degree off ,meanwhile. your foundation needs to be fixed. God is Al-Ahad!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

So busy throwing rocks on our third floor window with speculation about history or prayer directions that are a degree off ,meanwhile. your foundation needs to be fixed. God is Al-Ahad!

I think, properly understood, Islam is a polemic against Judaism and Christianity.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/polemic

 

[DesertRose]

I think, properly understood, Islam is a polemic against Judaism and Christianity.

It corrects those who are against the unity of the Creator no matter what faith they are.
It calls to the worship of the One God and away from the worship of His creation whether it is the Prophets peace be upon them, saints, animals, ideas or even the self.

And if you obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allah’s path. They follow nothing but conjecture, and they do nothing but lie. [Surah Al-An’aam, ayah 116]

So woe to those who write the “scripture” with their own hands, then say, “This is from Allah ,” in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. [Chapter 2, verse 79]

 

[TokiEl]

So busy throwing rocks on our third floor window with speculation about history or prayer directions that are a degree off ,meanwhile. your foundation needs to be fixed. God is Al-Ahad!

I'm sorry but the Devil has deceived you.

And you're not alone in being deceived (if that is any comfort)... for according to Jesus Christ in Revelation 12 when the Devil will be cast out of Heaven and down to the earth... the whole world is deceived.

Everybody is deceived even the elect if possible.

 

[elsbet]

It has been while since I looked into it but wasn’t the Tetragrammaton something they used because they didn’t want the Name written or said?

But I was really referencing the Hebrew word for “I am” which is not “hovah” like Token said. In my opinion that is the closest we can get to understanding what His Name is though I don’t think the Hebrew we see today is exactly like the Hebrew from those times.

I'm not sure, tbh. I know the Hebrew doesn't employ vowels, so often Jehovah is used to complete the unknown.
I looked up the verse out of curiosity, and it says Yahweh, but the 'word' it references is YHVH.

As an aside, knowing the meaning of the 'hovah' part, it makes sense that jay-z has adopted it as his own. *rolls eyes*

 

[KoncreteMind]

Exodus 6 2"And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:

3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."


https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3068.htm

Yes this is where we started to which I replied the strongs says that "hovah" means ruin/disaster/mischief. Do you think the Creator's name would be associated with disaster/mischief/ruin OR is strongs right about the "name" but wrong about hovah meaning "mischief" OR should we just go by what the Creator (if we believe Moses that is) said His Name is in Exodus 3?

 

[free2018]

I remember it being in Aramaic "I Am that I am". YHWH.

 

[KoncreteMind]

You must have met some very odd Christians! I split my reading (actually mainly listening) between the Old and New. The connections between the two are amazing. Nowhere in the OT (apart from the made up book 2 Esdras - thanks btw @bible_student !) does it point specifically to Jesus.

*Its authorship is ascribed to Ezra, a scribe and priest of the 5th century BC, although modern scholarsip places its composition between 70 and 218 AD:

2 Esdras 7


"28 For my son Jesus shall be revealed with those that be with him, and they that remain shall rejoice within four hundred years."

The OT veils the coming Messiah, yet hints in hundreds of ways. If you don't like that approach you will not see what Jesus explained to the two disciples walking on the road to Emmaus:-

The problem I see is that according to christians, Jesus was planned to come and do what he is said to have done since the beginning. Yet, there is no direct mention of him in the OT. And alot of the "prophecies" that are supposedly speaking of him, are taken terribly out of context. It goes from the OT saying no one can die for another sins, to another dying for everyone's sins. It goes from the law being eternal, to the law being abolished/done away with/nailed to the cross. All while the Creator who said the former things, said He never changes.. It hasnt always been this way, but I dont buy it anymore.

As far as the "veil" that makes even less sense. Why would someone veil something they want people to know and understand?