It's Time to Reconsider Malcolm X

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There's still this suffocating aura of taboo surrounding the topic, but let's not kid ourselves: race, ethnicity and religion are fundamental components to social order. Time to quit fantasy land and return to reality. People virtue signaling about peace and love and unity to earn social currency from like-minded hippies. Sounds good in theory, but the reality has more ugly faces. Even Jesus polarised people. Those who at all costs refuse to consider the idea of separation are those that, consciously or not, contribute to the perpetuation of communitarian conflict and civil disorder. Therefore it's high time that serious people take it off the dusty shelves of political incorrectness and back into public discourse.

Negotiate a deal to constitute black land on American soil. Give them full autonomy over their lands, their institutions, their law-making, let them tend to their own justice system, police forces, crime-fighting, prison system, education system, science. Let them dominate the businesses in their neighbourhoods, let them build their own houses, farms, hospitals, schools, courts. Let them decide what's best to move their community and society forward. This obsession with diversity and multiculturalism has already long spiraled out of control and messed up too many people and too many livelihoods and it continues to this day, as it has for too many decades, as the perfect context for the horizontalization of tensions to distract from political and financial exploitation.

So, put down the arms and bricks, shake hands, separate in peace and go take care of your own.

 
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Thunderian

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I like Malcolm X, but that plan wouldn’t be workable. A racial enclave has no place in a democracy, or you’d have to let the whites have one, too.
 
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I think if it has to be done, it should be done properly. Partition a new nation for them with their own constitution and citizenship, because, as Malcolm X said, they would still be victim of a white-oriented constitution. I'm fully aware of the likelihood that such a proposal would be rejected by a majority of whites. I'm inclined to think the majority of blacks would agree. If not a new nation, give them sovereignty comparative to state level. The backside is that they'd still be under the US Constitution and federal law, which they could continue to invoke as a cause of injustice.
 

Thunderian

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I don’t agree with him that the American constitution is only for white people, either. You can’t look at the history of civil rights in America and say that American society has not always moved (sometimes very slowly) toward the ideal that all men (and women) are created equal. Americans were not equal in 1776, true, but that has been corrected, and there is no legislated institutional inequality in America today.
 

Thunderian

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I think if it has to be done, it should be done properly. Partition a new nation for them with their own constitution and citizenship, because, as Malcolm X said, they would still be victim of a white-oriented constitution. I'm fully aware of the likelihood that such a proposal would be rejected by a majority of whites. I'm inclined to think the majority of blacks would agree. If not a new nation, give them sovereignty comparative to state level. The backside is that they'd still be under the US Constitution and federal law, which they could continue to invoke as a cause of injustice.
I agree that they’d need their own separate nation for it to be truly apart from American influence or control, but hasn’t that already been tried in Liberia?
 
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I don’t agree with him that the American constitution is only for white people, either. You can’t look at the history of civil rights in America and say that American society has not always moved (sometimes very slowly) toward the ideal that all men (and women) are created equal. Americans were not equal in 1776, true, but that has been corrected, and there is no legislated institutional inequality in America today.
I agree with you, but truth is often overrided by belief. As institutional racism has decreased to a point where it no longer exists, race relations have worsened. All the civil progress the United States has gone through has no worth if it isn't perceived as such.
 

Maes17

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They do, however..they don’t seem real happy on their reservations. I thought alcohol abuse was prevalent.
It is. A lot of tribes have alcohol problems. Homeless problems too
 

Lisa

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It is. A lot of tribes have alcohol problems. Homeless problems too
Maybe having your own cut doesn’t work in the end? But we might find out it’s not really the white people keeping them down?
 

Maes17

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I agree with you, but truth is often overrided by belief. As institutional racism has decreased to a point where it no longer exists, race relations have worsened. All the civil progress the United States has gone through has no worth if it isn't perceived as such.
Racism is prevalent in small instances but overall, and this is coming from my point of view, growing up as a minority.

Being stereotyped sucks. But I shrug it off.
Street culture. Yes there is a code they abide by. Supposed to anyways. But crime is crime.
Opportunity. A lot of us do get grants, scholarships to pursue higher education. The hard part with education in poverty stricken communities is the lack of resources and the student/teacher ratios. Add on top that sometimes schools in low income areas also have a lot of gang fights.

We have a lot of issues but we also have people who have overcome that adversity.
To say opportunity isn’t there. It is. It’s hard work. But it’s there.

Now what bothers me is when our community leaders actually make strides to better those communities and when you have riots and looters. That drives away any existing business or potential business and as a result that just trickles down and brings down the community into poverty yet again
 
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Racism is prevalent in small instances but overall, and this is coming from my point of view, growing up as a minority.

Being stereotyped sucks. But I shrug it off.
Street culture. Yes there is a code they abide by. Supposed to anyways. But crime is crime.
Opportunity. A lot of us do get grants, scholarships to pursue higher education. The hard part with education in poverty stricken communities is the lack of resources and the student/teacher ratios. Add on top that sometimes schools in low income areas also have a lot of gang fights.

We have a lot of issues but we also have people who have overcome that adversity.
To say opportunity isn’t there. It is. It’s hard work. But it’s there.

Now what bothers me is when our community leaders actually make strides to better those communities and when you have riots and looters. That drives away any existing business or potential business and as a result that just trickles down and brings down the community into poverty yet again
What's your background, if I may ask? You part of a minority in the US?
 
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1) Do you think that the gulf between whites and blacks is so wide, that the only way their differences can be reconciled is by complete social, political, economic, and geographic separation?
2) How would you determine who was 'white' and who was 'black'? Would you do DNA tests? What would be the percentage threshold for determining which state an individual would belong to? If you had 20% or greater African American heritage, would you be considered black? Would you determine a person's race by their skin colour? What if a person who physically appeared white was determined to have predominantly black heritage? What about mixed race individuals?
3) What about whites and blacks who belong to each other's families: i.e. a black woman who married a white man and vice versa; black parents who had adopted white children? White parents with mixed race children from a previous marriage?
4) How would you allocate land? Would you cordon off three or four states and allocate them to African Americans? What about the white people that already live there? Would there be a mass migration of people, of whites to 'white' country, and blacks to 'black' country, reminiscent of the partition of India into separate states for Muslims and Hindus in 1947?
5) Would it be voluntary? Would you force blacks to emigrate if they did not so wish? Would you force whites to emigrate if they did not so wish? What penalty would you enforce for any breach of segregation?
6) Do you think segregation would solve all issues? Do you think there would not still remain criminals, thugs and sociopaths in the 'white' state, as there would in the 'black' state? Do you not think evil transcends race and skin colour, and that both are capable of oppression and iniquity?
7) Do you not think that, as a response to race riots, segregation is a laughable, far-fetched solution? The problem was not that whites and blacks cannot live in peace, it is that a few despotic individuals misused their authority to enact a monstrous racial attack, and that the ensuing protests were infiltrated by saboteurs and provocateurs for violent and nefarious political ends.
8) You have fallen prey to identity politics and race fatalism in advocating segregation. You appear to think that blacks have a peculiar social and cultural weltanschauung and way of being that makes their intermingling with society a ticking time bomb, waiting to go off; that it is only a matter of time before blacks turn against whites.
9) It is disingenuous to invoke Malcolm X in your argument for segregation. Do you know much about Malcolm X, that great, visionary man whose words you have appropriated? The interview you have presented was recorded in 1963. After leaving the Nation of Islam in 1964 Malcolm's thinking on the matter changed. He traveled to Arabia to perform the pilgrimage and saw there that light-skinned Caucasians and dark-skinned Africans performed pilgrimage together, shoulder to shoulder, in reverence of One God. He traveled across Senegal, Morocco, Sudan, Egypt talking at universities and meeting with leaders, and began to reconsider his adherence to Black nationalism:

Although he no longer called for the separation of black people from white people, Malcolm X continued to advocate black nationalism, which he defined as self-determination for the African-American community.[281] In the last months of his life, however, Malcolm X began to reconsider his support for black nationalism after meeting northern African revolutionaries who, to all appearances, were white.[282]

After his Hajj, Malcolm X articulated a view of white people and racism that represented a deep change from the philosophy he had supported as a minister of the Nation of Islam. In a famous letter from Mecca, he wrote that his experiences with white people during his pilgrimage convinced him to "rearrange" his thinking about race and "toss aside some of [his] previous conclusions".[283] In a conversation with Gordon Parks, two days before his assassination, Malcolm said:


[L]istening to leaders like Nasser, Ben Bella, and Nkrumah awakened me to the dangers of racism. I realized racism isn't just a black and white problem. It's brought bloodbaths to about every nation on earth at one time or another.

Brother, remember the time that white college girls came into the restaurant‍—‌the one who wanted to help the [Black] Muslims and the whites get together‍—‌and I told her there wasn't a ghost of a chance and she went away crying? Well, I've lived to regret that incident. In many parts of the African continent, I saw white students helping black people. Something like this kills a lot of argument. I did many things as a [Black] Muslim that I'm sorry for now. I was a zombie then‍—‌like all [Black] Muslims‍—‌I was hypnotized, pointed in a certain direction and told to march. Well, I guess a man's entitled to make a fool of himself if he's ready to pay the cost. It cost me 12 years.

That was a bad scene, brother. The sickness and madness of those days‍—‌I'm glad to be free of them.

10) All men are equal in the sight of God. No dark-skinned man is superior to a light-skinned man, and no light-skinned man is superior to a dark-skinned man. God judges based upon deeds.
God does not look at the strength of your bodies nor the beauty of your forms; He only looks at your inward and outward actions.
 
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Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
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1) Do you think that the gulf between whites and blacks is so wide, that the only way their differences can be reconciled is by complete social, political, economic, and geographic separation?
2) How would you determine who was 'white' and who was 'black'? Would you do DNA tests? What would be the percentage threshold for determining which state an individual would belong to? If you had 20% or greater African American heritage, would you be considered black? Would you determine a person's race by their skin colour? What if a person who physically appeared white was determined to have predominantly black heritage? What about mixed race individuals?
3) What about whites and blacks who belong to each other's families: i.e. a black woman who married a white man and vice versa; black parents who had adopted white children? White parents with mixed race children from a previous marriage?
4) How would you allocate land? Would you cordon off three or four states and allocate them to African Americans? What about the white people that already live there? Would there be a mass migration of people, of whites to 'white' country, and blacks to 'black' country, reminiscent of the partition of India into separate states for Muslims and Hindus in 1947?
5) Would it be voluntary? Would you force blacks to emigrate if they did not so wish? Would you force whites to emigrate if they did not so wish? What penalty would you enforce for any breach of segregation?
6) Do you think segregation would solve all issues? Do you think there would not still remain criminals, thugs and sociopaths in the 'white' state, as there would in the 'black' state? Do you not think evil transcends race and skin colour, and that both are capable of oppression and iniquity?
7) Do you not think that, as a response to race riots, segregation is a laughable, far-fetched solution? The problem was not that whites and blacks cannot live in peace, it is that a few despotic individuals misused their authority to enact a monstrous racial attack, and that the ensuing protests were infiltrated by saboteurs and provocateurs for violent and nefarious political ends.
8) You have fallen prey to identity politics and race fatalism in advocating segregation. You appear to think that blacks have a peculiar social and cultural weltanschauung and way of being that makes their intermingling with society a ticking time bomb, waiting to go off; that it is only a matter of time before blacks turn against whites.
9) It is disingenuous to invoke Malcolm X in your argument for segregation. Do you know much about Malcolm X, that great, visionary man whose words you have appropriated? The interview you have presented was recorded in 1963. After leaving the Nation of Islam in 1964 Malcolm's thinking on the matter changed. He traveled to Arabia to perform the pilgrimage and saw there that light-skinned Caucasians and dark-skinned Africans performed pilgrimage together, shoulder to shoulder, in reverence of One God. He traveled across Senegal, Morocco, Sudan, Egypt talking at universities and meeting with leaders, and began to reconsider his adherence to Black nationalism:

Although he no longer called for the separation of black people from white people, Malcolm X continued to advocate black nationalism, which he defined as self-determination for the African-American community.[281] In the last months of his life, however, Malcolm X began to reconsider his support for black nationalism after meeting northern African revolutionaries who, to all appearances, were white.[282]

After his Hajj, Malcolm X articulated a view of white people and racism that represented a deep change from the philosophy he had supported as a minister of the Nation of Islam. In a famous letter from Mecca, he wrote that his experiences with white people during his pilgrimage convinced him to "rearrange" his thinking about race and "toss aside some of [his] previous conclusions".[283] In a conversation with Gordon Parks, two days before his assassination, Malcolm said:


[L]istening to leaders like Nasser, Ben Bella, and Nkrumah awakened me to the dangers of racism. I realized racism isn't just a black and white problem. It's brought bloodbaths to about every nation on earth at one time or another.

Brother, remember the time that white college girls came into the restaurant‍—‌the one who wanted to help the [Black] Muslims and the whites get together‍—‌and I told her there wasn't a ghost of a chance and she went away crying? Well, I've lived to regret that incident. In many parts of the African continent, I saw white students helping black people. Something like this kills a lot of argument. I did many things as a [Black] Muslim that I'm sorry for now. I was a zombie then‍—‌like all [Black] Muslims‍—‌I was hypnotized, pointed in a certain direction and told to march. Well, I guess a man's entitled to make a fool of himself if he's ready to pay the cost. It cost me 12 years.

That was a bad scene, brother. The sickness and madness of those days‍—‌I'm glad to be free of them.

10) All men are equal in the sight of God. No dark-skinned man is superior to a light-skinned man, and no light-skinned man is superior to a dark-skinned man. God judges based upon deeds.
God does not look at the strength of your bodies nor the beauty of your forms; He only looks at your inward and outward actions.
Some really good questions that I've also considered. I won't go through them all now, because it's already long past midnight here, but will give it some more thought the coming days. What I will say is that I envisioned this on a fully voluntary basis. So migration to the new nation would be completely voluntary and unconditional. No one should or can be forced from their home turf either, so this as well should be handled on a voluntary basis. Government efforts could be made to accommodate those who accept resettlement by building housing and other required infrastructure. The problem is that such an idea, in my awareness, has never really had much publicity and therefore never produced many practical and feasible measures. But I do think it's worth moren than a few brainstorming sessions.
 
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Some really good questions that I've also considered. I won't go through them all now, because it's already long past midnight here, but will give it some more thought the coming days. What I will say is that I envisioned this on a fully voluntary basis. So migration to the new nation would be completely voluntary and unconditional. No one should or can be forced from their home turf either, so this as well should be handled on a voluntary basis. Government efforts could be made to accommodate those who accept resettlement by building housing and other required infrastructure. The problem is that such an idea, in my awareness, has never really had much publicity and therefore never produced many practical and feasible measures. But I do think it's worth moren than a few brainstorming sessions.
I'll be honest: I think its a terrible idea.
 

Maes17

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What's your background, if I may ask? You part of a minority in the US?
Hispanic. Considered minority.
Grew up in some really rough parts of Albuquerque. I’ve also lived in GA too. Changed my perception a lot. My wife’s aunt who took us in while we lived in GA, she was what many consider “trailer trash” white. There is what I see class divide.

I’m not the type who likes to use excuses or blame white privilege. I worked my ass off to be in the position I am now. And I’m proud of it. But there are certain disadvantages we often carry. Stereotyping is one. I’m not a criminal, don’t carry myself like one. However I have been followed around in stores, have had the cops called me cause I was in and out vehicles collecting miles/vin #’s. Cop left me alone when I told him I was doing my job recording down trade in vehicles. But he said the call was that I looked “suspect”.

It’s small stuff, but it can be a persistent minor annoyance in some cases and at that depending what image can mess with hiring.

But again. I’m often the wrong person to ask, cause I’m still under the impression if you work hard you have a chance.

I’ll say this though, cause I went to school, grew up around poor black/hispanics. Family structure/community support. I haven’t done it this year cause of covid. But every summer I’ll donate my time to tutor kids, and help out with free lunches. Kids need hope, encouragement/inspiration. They don’t need broken infrastructure and struggling neighbors.
 
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