Paradigm Shift in US Conservatism

[MoDc]

You're a far left anarchist freak LOL. You're one world communist utopia is never happening freak.

uhh which one am I? An anarchist or a communist? High School is tough man but it gets better. The jocks giving you a hard time?

 

[weskrongden]

uhh which one am I? An anarchist or a communist? High School is tough man but it gets better. The jocks giving you a hard time?

Just horrible insults LOL. You're the one bitter about society and white culture because of how unattractive and weird you are. I actually love people like you. Please keep talking about open borders, how bad white people are, how things most white people hold dear is racist, ect... All you do is push more white people towards me.

 

[Artful Revealer]

Yes I’m sure you want to get back to being a white supremacist propaganda operation without any resistance.

So much hate for reason and sincerity. You must have a hard life. I'm sorry.

 

[Artful Revealer]

First class anti-white deception we're used to at MTV. They did a piece on White Supremacy featuring Nick Fuentes in which they promised to make him look good. He was only 19 so I forgive his naivety for trusting a deal with the devil. Make sure to watch Fuentes' tweets (00:30 - 01:30) for context.

 

[justjess]

Just horrible insults LOL. You're the one bitter about society and white culture because of how unattractive and weird you are. I actually love people like you. Please keep talking about open borders, how bad white people are, how things most white people hold dear is racist, ect... All you do is push more white people towards me.

He’s white... just saying.

I’m white. I can recognize that racism and ALL FORMS of supremacy (white included) are bad.

We can squabble over how we got HERE and what the motives were for getting us HERE all damn day.. but the fact is we are HERE and we need to deal with that rather then some imaginary place we wish we were in instead.

I will agree that homogenous countries deal with income inequality way better than America does. It seems to be due to a sense of community. I will not disagree there. But we do not all need to be the SAME to have a sense of community. Focusing on the wrong things, imo.

 

[Awoken2]

How’s your ongoing fued with Awoken going?

Ahhh hello again Colonel Vagina, I never recognised you there with your new name and avatar n stuff

Well a lot has happened since you were banished in disgrace from the forum a few months ago. Me and Zone found common ground, fell in love an moved in together and now live as an outwardly gay couple. We've adopted a young child who we are hoping will soon announce that they are trans. We spend our evenings now snuggled up together watching Fox News and occasionally pop on to the forum to slap.down any Trump dissenters who dare to try an destabilize the current status quo.

I know, and we used to argue so much

.....Anyway, what you been up to?

 

[weskrongden]

He’s white... just saying.

I’m white. I can recognize that racism and ALL FORMS of supremacy (white included) are bad.

We can squabble over how we got HERE and what the motives were for getting us HERE all damn day.. but the fact is we are HERE and we need to deal with that rather then some imaginary place we wish we were in instead.

I will agree that homogenous countries deal with income inequality way better than America does. It seems to be due to a sense of community. I will not disagree there. But we do not all need to be the SAME to have a sense of community. Focusing on the wrong things, imo.

Yea but he hates himself. Hard to find someone with a bigger sense of white guilt and self hatred.

I think it's mostly necessary to have a homogenous population to have a strong sense of community. You can look all around the world, when you start adding in different races of people, you get conflict. People are tribal, that's just a normal part of being human. Perhaps if we had reasonable rates of immigration over the last 50 years and the birth rates among Americans born here had been higher, immigrants might have felt assimilation was more necessary. But that's not what elites wanted and that's not what happened.

Let's look at Virginia as an example. Changing demographics and mass non-white immigration have led to the state shifting drastically to the left. Now the state wants to confiscate firearms, white Virginians who have been here for generations say no in south VA, the state was talking about bringing in the national guard. It looks like the state has backed off for now but you can see how explosive that situation was. The country gets more divided eveyday, conflict seems inevitable at this point.

 

[justjess]

Yea but he hates himself. Hard to find someone with a bigger sense of white guilt and self hatred.

I think it's mostly necessary to have a homogenous population to have a strong sense of community. You can look all around the world, when you start adding in different races of people, you get conflict. People are tribal, that's just a normal part of being human. Perhaps if we had reasonable rates of immigration over the last 50 years and the birth rates among Americans born here had been higher, immigrants might have felt assimilation was more necessary. But that's not what elites wanted and that's not what happened.

Let's look at Virginia as an example. Changing demographics and mass non-white immigration have led to the state shifting drastically to the left. Now the state wants to confiscate firearms, white Virginians who have been here for generations say no in south VA, the state was talking about bringing in the national guard. It looks like the state has backed off for now but you can see how explosive that situation was. The country gets more divided eveyday, conflict seems inevitable at this point.

Let’s presume your contentions are accurate... what do you propose to do about it?

Do you want to send all the non white people away? To where? Who qualifies to stay? I’m southern Italian, Catholic (ish).. I’m not a wasp so do I have to go? My Irish husband with blue eyes gets to stay? How exactly does this work and to what end?

I mean.. I don’t see any other end game if what your saying is correct. If you envision something different, feel free to share.

As for those homogenous countries they also have very different economic systems. I’m not sure which is the chicken or the egg. Or if the two are even related. It would be a lot easier to try to replicate their economic system and see if that works then to somehow become a homogenous country - I can’t even wrap my head around the logistics of that tbh.

 

[Artful Revealer]

Many would sacrifice a point of GDP to get back that sense of national community. European people have been robbed of their identity and their roots have been taken from them and are vilified for speaking about it. Some sort of restoration of this loss would already lead to greater satisfaction and happiness for many, rather than any economic bonus, which would be a reality anyway. I wouldn't look at it merely from an economic perspective.

Solution-wise, there are many ways to go about it. Some examples:

Countries have to shut the gates and first take care of the asylum applicants and illegal immigrants that are already requiring attention. Illegal immigrants have committed a crime so their sending back is imperative. Asylum, according to international law, must only be accepted by the first safe and stable neighbouring country a refugee enters. Any asylum granted by another country is charity and goodwill. This is done on a case-by-case basis.

Foreign nationals or dual-citizens who have migrated to the country as an adult and have committed a capital offense should be repatriated without question. The severity of the crime in relation to whether or not someone should be deported is up for debate. The country of origin should be held responsible for the criminal in case of statelessness. Any dual-citizen who wants to hold public office in their host country should revoke their foreign citizenship(s).

A hard pushback policy would have to be implemented to deincentivize people from migrating and spending their money on human traffickers, risking their lives to cross desert or sea. Human traffickers should be cracked down hard, which is very unrealistic of course because of their ties to intelligence, NGO's and financial racketeers. Refugees can be helped better in their countries of origin or safe neighbouring countries, without being uprooted from their cultures and people, for ten times less costs. Refugees could acquire asylum given they will return after the situation in their country of origin has stabilized. Second-, third-, fourth- etc generation immigrants that have problems integrating into larger society should be helped, if willing, to find their place in their country of origin instead of infinitely consuming welfare resources.

Making babies should be incentivized as in countries like Russia and Hungary. In Hungary, for example, tax rate declines until a woman's 4th child. Every woman (of Hungarian descent) with 4 or more children doesn't have to pay income tax. Obviously promotion of marriage (capable of procreating) should be preferred over the promotion of divorce and sterile relationships.

In your case @justjess, or your Irish husband, or any Catholics, there's not really an issue. The US was of a different make up from the start than the average European nation, with Irish, German, English, Natives, African, etc. The large majority however (90% in the 60s) was of European descent and Christian, so you both are part of that larger ethnic fabric. I think efforts should be made to preserve whatever's left of that if you want to continue to live in the America you've come to know.

 

[weskrongden]

Many would sacrifice a point of GDP to get back that sense of national community. European people have been robbed of their identity and their roots have been taken from them and are vilified for speaking about it. Some sort of restoration of this loss would already lead to greater satisfaction and happiness for many, rather than any economic bonus, which would be a reality anyway. I wouldn't look at it merely from an economic perspective.

Solution-wise, there are many ways to go about it. Some examples:

Countries have to shut the gates and first take care of the asylum applicants and illegal immigrants that are already requiring attention. Illegal immigrants have committed a crime so their sending back is imperative. Asylum, according to international law, must only be accepted by the first safe and stable neighbouring country a refugee enters. Any asylum granted by another country is charity and goodwill. This is done on a case-by-case basis.

Foreign nationals or dual-citizens who have migrated to the country as an adult and have committed a capital offense should be repatriated without question. The severity of the crime in relation to whether or not someone should be deported is up for debate. The country of origin should be held responsible for the criminal in case of statelessness. Any dual-citizen who wants to hold public office in their host country should revoke their foreign citizenship(s).

A hard pushback policy would have to be implemented to deincentivize people from migrating and spending their money on human traffickers, risking their lives to cross desert or sea. Human traffickers should be cracked down hard, which is very unrealistic of course because of their ties to intelligence, NGO's and financial racketeers. Refugees can be helped better in their countries of origin or safe neighbouring countries, without being uprooted from their cultures and people, for ten times less costs. Refugees could acquire asylum given they will return after the situation in their country of origin has stabilized. Second-, third-, fourth- etc generation immigrants that have problems integrating into larger society should be helped, if willing, to find their place in their country of origin instead of infinitely consuming welfare resources.

Making babies should be incentivized as in countries like Russia and Hungary. In Hungary, for example, tax rate declines until a woman's 4th child. Every woman (of Hungarian descent) with 4 or more children doesn't have to pay income tax. Obviously promotion of marriage (capable of procreating) should be preferred over the promotion of divorce and sterile relationships.

In your case @justjess, or your Irish husband, or any Catholics, there's not really an issue. The US was of a different make up from the start than the average European nation, with Irish, German, English, Natives, African, etc. The large majority however (90% in the 60s) was of European descent and Christian, so you both are part of that larger ethnic fabric. I think efforts should be made to preserve whatever's left of that if you want to continue to live in the America you've come to know.

It's too late for any of that to really make a difference, just delaying the inevitable by a few decades (and it's not going to happen anyway, GOP controlled Senate just passed a sneaky Liberian amnesty today.) Too many immigrants, both legal and illegal have migrated here over the last 50 years. Balkanization seems like the only chance at a peaceful solution. West Canada has started talking about i.

 

[Wigi]

It's too late for any of that to really make a difference, just delaying the inevitable by a few decades (and it's not going to happen anyway, GOP controlled Senate just passed a sneaky Liberian amnesty today.)

Au contraire, what he said makes sense and could be applied in European countries if we put politicians who cares about identity someday. I know nothing about North America but a lot of things can be restored in few decades because you're in a much better state than most European countries right now I guarantee you. I think what you consider as inevitable is just something you secretely wants to see. I don't.

Balkanization seems like the only chance at a peaceful solution.

Everytime I hear balkanisation I'm cringing really hard because this could start a war.
What you said is like saying that a civil war is the only good option even if it can make you lose your land for good simply because nobody would like to give the land of their ancestors without a fight.

 

[weskrongden]

Au contraire, what he said makes sense and could be applied in European countries if we put politicians who cares about identity someday. I know nothing about North America but a lot of things can be restored in few decades because you're in a much better state than most European countries right now I guarantee you. I think what you consider as inevitable is just something you secretely wants to see. I don't.


Everytime I hear balkanisation I'm cringing really hard because this could start a war.
What you said is like saying that a civil war is the only good option even if it can make you lose your land for good simply because nobody would like to give the land of their ancestors without a fight.

His solution would have been perfect 20 years ago, but now the demographics are too far gone. If we magically got birth rates up for non immigrants, it would help. But we know that would be a slow tedious process that would happen incrementally. His solution can work for Europe, their demographics aren't so far gone like America. We've passed an event horizon.

But there is no chance we can implement those ideas anyway. The endless train of immigration is not stopping. Too many immigrants have come the last 50 years and have children, and they keep voting for more immigrants. So it's a cycle that won't be stopped in the current American system. Additionally, most Republicans are corporate owned puppets who go along with it so their donors can have cheap labor and more consumers.

I understand your trepidation about war. But consider the example about Virginia that I talked about. Militias being formed, the national guard being called in. We are headed to violent conflict, gun control will probably be the spark. Balkanization is the only hope for peace.

 

[weskrongden]

A couple videos illustrating my points pretty well

(talks about it for about 15 minutes, don't need to watch the entire thing)

An unrelenting stream of immigration. Non stop!

 

[Wigi]

I understand your trepidation about war. But consider the example about Virginia that I talked about. Militias being formed, the national guard being called in. We are headed to violent conflict, gun control will probably be the spark. Balkanization is the only hope for peace

It's not trepidation. It's i'm really upset to see us in this situation knowing how hard it is to earn and preserve peace.

Is it this hard to talk, to share, to understand each others?
I mean i'm no fan of multiculturalism but I strongly believe people are much more complex as individuals than you think they are in groups and all we really want it's justice and fairness.

Sometimes I ask myself why we are this dumb and stubborn to believe tribalism is the way to go and wars is the price to pay for our well being ?
Why every centuries we have to kill each others and waste energy to destroy when we can build something better for everyone ? This energy can be used against those who should be held accountable for their evil schemes so why should I use my strenght against my neighbor instead ?

Something is definitely messed up in human nature and that makes me mad.

 

[weskrongden]

It's not trepidation. It's i'm really upset to see us in this situation knowing how hard it is to earn and preserve peace.

Is it this hard to talk, to share, to understand each others?
I mean i'm no fan of multiculturalism but I strongly believe people are much more complex as individuals than you think they are in groups and all we really want it's justice and fairness.

Sometimes I ask myself why we are this dumb and stubborn to believe tribalism is the way to go and wars is the price to pay for our well being ?
Why every centuries we have to kill each others and waste energy to destroy when we can build something better for everyone ? This energy can be used against those who should be held accountable for their evil schemes so why should I use my strenght against my neighbor instead ?

Something is definitely messed up in human nature and that makes me mad.

We can try to understand each other but in the end if my neighbor wants a gun ban and I want to keep my firearms only one of us are going to get our way. If I want free speech and he wants hate speech laws, only one of us are going to get our way. If he wants reparations and I don't, only one of us are going to get our way. If he wants open borders and I want a hardline immigration policy, only one of us are going to get our way. The divide is just so massive. We aren't arguing about if the rich should pay 50% or 35% marginal tax rates, we are arguing about the fundamentals of society. It's destined for conflict.

 

[Artful Revealer]

@weskrongden

I do share your concern and am also of the belief that it's too late, but there's no harm in trying. It's also about sending a message that there's nothing evil about building society on ethnic foundations, for all ethnicities, with people that share language, religion, customs, values. It's common sense and will appeal to everyone. We see nationalist proclivities of ethnic minorites in western countries all the time. There's just a weird taboo about this all that only exists with white people.

But in order to have a smooth recovery from the failed multiculti experiment, repatriation has to become attractive for the ones being repatriated. In the case of the United States, for instance, this has to coincide with some national accountability. You can't as a government incentivize repatriation but continue to destabilize the countries they are being repatriated too. What the American neocon establishment has been doing in Latin America, or elsewhere, for over 40 years has to stop and US citizens should really hold their government's feet to the fire when it comes to their subversive imperialist foreign policy. Push referendi to regain state control of the money supply; cancel the debts of third world countries and let them gain monetary independence. Make sure there's an interesting climate for local enterprise. The West has know-how in terms of enterprise, education, construction, agrarian technology etc, which is far more valuable than any loan or a donation, so we oughta focus foreign aid in that respect. Let them recover from their brain and labour drain they've been suffering from for decades.

If we let them develop free from the yoke of debt and completely sovereign in terms of international trade, there will be people like a Gaddafi or a Sankara who will rise up to reorganize their countries and take their countries forward, be economically more self-sustaining, their birth rates would stabilize which would reduce the problem of overpopulation, etc.

It's all wishful thinking as long as we're slaves to the globalist oligarchs, I know. But theoretically, this could definitely undo the mess that has been shaped over the past several decades.

 

[justjess]

Many would sacrifice a point of GDP to get back that sense of national community. European people have been robbed of their identity and their roots have been taken from them and are vilified for speaking about it. Some sort of restoration of this loss would already lead to greater satisfaction and happiness for many, rather than any economic bonus, which would be a reality anyway. I wouldn't look at it merely from an economic perspective.

Solution-wise, there are many ways to go about it. Some examples:

Countries have to shut the gates and first take care of the asylum applicants and illegal immigrants that are already requiring attention. Illegal immigrants have committed a crime so their sending back is imperative. Asylum, according to international law, must only be accepted by the first safe and stable neighbouring country a refugee enters. Any asylum granted by another country is charity and goodwill. This is done on a case-by-case basis.

Foreign nationals or dual-citizens who have migrated to the country as an adult and have committed a capital offense should be repatriated without question. The severity of the crime in relation to whether or not someone should be deported is up for debate. The country of origin should be held responsible for the criminal in case of statelessness. Any dual-citizen who wants to hold public office in their host country should revoke their foreign citizenship(s).

A hard pushback policy would have to be implemented to deincentivize people from migrating and spending their money on human traffickers, risking their lives to cross desert or sea. Human traffickers should be cracked down hard, which is very unrealistic of course because of their ties to intelligence, NGO's and financial racketeers. Refugees can be helped better in their countries of origin or safe neighbouring countries, without being uprooted from their cultures and people, for ten times less costs. Refugees could acquire asylum given they will return after the situation in their country of origin has stabilized. Second-, third-, fourth- etc generation immigrants that have problems integrating into larger society should be helped, if willing, to find their place in their country of origin instead of infinitely consuming welfare resources.

Making babies should be incentivized as in countries like Russia and Hungary. In Hungary, for example, tax rate declines until a woman's 4th child. Every woman (of Hungarian descent) with 4 or more children doesn't have to pay income tax. Obviously promotion of marriage (capable of procreating) should be preferred over the promotion of divorce and sterile relationships.

In your case @justjess, or your Irish husband, or any Catholics, there's not really an issue. The US was of a different make up from the start than the average European nation, with Irish, German, English, Natives, African, etc. The large majority however (90% in the 60s) was of European descent and Christian, so you both are part of that larger ethnic fabric. I think efforts should be made to preserve whatever's left of that if you want to continue to live in the America you've come to know.

When my grandfather came here in the early 1900’s we were the immigrants they said didn’t belong. We were black or dark white on the census for decades - not white. Catholics (even pale blue eyed Irish) were despised and not welcome. So how do you decide we only roll back the clock to the 60’s?

I’m second generation... do we decide based on that? Fourth generation or further can stay and anything sooner has to leave? Or foreign born and first generation has to go? Everyone else can stay?

Who draws that line and what is it qualified on?

Europe is a bit different than America. Everyone in America is an immigrant somewhere down the line except native Americans. Making any sort of anti immigrant policy HERE is kinda hypocritical. That doesn’t mean I’m for open borders, I’m not. Purely from an economic standpoint because right now our citizens are hurting economically and until we can manage to provide a decent quality of life for our own citizens open borders is asinine.

However, I will say that our economic reality has been created by the same people who are blaming it on those immigrants and calling for nationalism so I have to wonder if this was a planned situation.. and I can’t trust anything that comes out of their mouths as as result.

Idk what Europe’s answer is, I don’t know what America’s answer is but when you start talking about shipping “back” people who have never lived in their country of ancestry it gets hairy.. if I was sent “back” to Italy I wouldn’t know a single soul, the field I work in doesn’t exist in Europe so I don’t know how I’d provide for myself, I don’t speak Italian, culturally I’m very different. I don’t see how that would solve America’s problems or Italy’s.

Italy is willing to welcome me with open arms. As previously stated I can gain citizenship and my mom is in the process of doing so (she wants a summer home). But idk why they want us.. we aren’t the same culturally as born Italians, I’ve never stepped foot in Italy and while my mom has been there a few times for vacations it isn’t like she has substantial ties to the country. It doesn’t seem to be about culture.

I agree with financially incentivizing birth rates though.. America could go along way by providing healthcare, paid time off, and childcare to start. Finances are the reason people aren’t having kids.

 

[Artful Revealer]

When my grandfather came here in the early 1900’s we were the immigrants they said didn’t belong. We were black or dark white on the census for decades - not white. Catholics (even pale blue eyed Irish) were despised and not welcome. So how do you decide we only roll back the clock to the 60’s?

We're not 100 years ago and immigration under different circumstances doesn't have the same effects. In case of the US, the determining factor would be LBJ's Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 which abolished the National Origins Formula, which - quote - "restricted immigration on the basis of existing proportions of the population. It aimed to reduce the overall number of unskilled immigrants (especially from Southern Europe, Eastern Europe and Asia), to allow families to re-unite, and to prevent immigration from changing the ethnic distribution of the largely Protestant Northwestern European-descended United States population." This Act enabled the disruption of national demographics without the people's conscious awareness of these consequences.

But a similar thing happened all over the western world with regards to new immigration policies during the 60s and 70s. It was all done under the pretense of short-term economic reasons and the lack of specific labour, but it turns out it was about more than that.

I’m second generation... do we decide based on that? Fourth generation or further can stay and anything sooner has to leave? Or foreign born and first generation has to go? Everyone else can stay?

Who draws that line and what is it qualified on?

Like I said, this would depend on the individual (if willing). Integrating into a foreign society isn't always that easy. One of the reasons that many don't integrate is because they don't feel any attachment to the local culture and people and would have more chance to blossom if they were in an ethnic society more akin to theirs. Some second-generation immigrants are completely integrated, some fourth-generation immigrants fall completely back to their ethnic roots and become isolated. With second or higher generation immigrants, nothing should be coerced. But options should be made available.

However, I will say that our economic reality has been created by the same people who are blaming it on those immigrants and calling for nationalism so I have to wonder if this was a planned situation.. and I can’t trust anything that comes out of their mouths as as result.

We could go into depth about this topic, but I'll save it for another post.

With regard to you and Italy, they want you because your roots are Italian. You perhaps think that you going to Italy is no different than a Somalian going to Italy, but I would beg to differ. You'd have a far higher chance of integrating, speaking the language in a shorter amount of time, and picking up and assimilate into Italian society than the average African or Arab.

 

[Artful Revealer]

I know nothing about North America but a lot of things can be restored in few decades because you're in a much better state than most European countries right now I guarantee you.

This is true. Sweden, for instance, is done. They've been the lab rat of the cultural diversity and identity politics experiment and are fast on track to become a third world country with record crime rates. Countries like France and the UK aren't that far behind. It's all a matter of urgency more so in some European countries than the US.

 

[justjess]

We're not 100 years ago and immigration under different circumstances doesn't have the same effects. In case of the US, the determining factor would be LBJ's Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 which abolished the National Origins Formula, which - quote - "restricted immigration on the basis of existing proportions of the population. It aimed to reduce the overall number of unskilled immigrants (especially from Southern Europe, Eastern Europe and Asia), to allow families to re-unite, and to prevent immigration from changing the ethnic distribution of the largely Protestant Northwestern European-descended United States population." This Act enabled the disruption of national demographics without the people's conscious awareness of these consequences.

But a similar thing happened all over the western world with regards to new immigration policies during the 60s and 70s. It was all done under the pretense of short-term economic reasons and the lack of specific labour, but it turns out it was about more than that.

Like I said, this would depend on the individual (if willing). Integrating into a foreign society isn't always that easy. One of the reasons that many don't integrate is because they don't feel any attachment to the local culture and people and would have more chance to blossom if they were in an ethnic society more akin to theirs. Some second-generation immigrants are completely integrated, some fourth-generation immigrants fall completely back to their ethnic roots and become isolated. With second or higher generation immigrants, nothing should be coerced. But options should be made available.

We could go into depth about this topic, but I'll save it for another post.

With regard to you and Italy, they want you because your roots are Italian. You perhaps think that you going to Italy is no different than a Somalian going to Italy, but I would beg to differ. You'd have a far higher chance of integrating, speaking the language in a shorter amount of time, and picking up and assimilate into Italian society than the average African or Arab.

Even based on lbj’s 1960’s era criteria my family shouldn’t be here.. we aren’t Protestant, we are Southern European and my grandfathers stated profession at immigration was laborer. It’s interesting that a country will welcome people when they can USE them and then slam the door shut when they can’t or don’t need to anymore.

So what do you do individual assessments on each descendent of an immigrant going back five generations? That seems extremely ridiculous and cost prohibitive imo. And to what end? Because I suspect the ones who fail “the test” will all somehow miraculously be colored. And I can’t ignore the impact purposeful planned economic repression of those communities has had and how that would make them more likely to fail.

As for Italy that’s kinda my point... I might integrate easier, but at start I am not culturally similar. So saying it’s about preserving culture is kinda a red herring.