The New Left and Feminism - A Right Winge

Cintra

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I was saying this since back during the summer. Anytime you disagree with her, him, herm, shim, whatever the fuck is a gender in 2021.

Thing is the poster gets hostile. Really hostile. And contradictory
Its a bit funny, though.
 






Aero

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Everyone wants the whole package. And it doesn't really matter what they themselves can offer.

Hopefully, people get that was cynicism. Here's a line I heard on Twitter, but Idk if it was from a feminist. I'm sure we have all heard the old cliche that you should change yourself for yourself, not other people.

My question is, if I'm changing myself for myself, what the hell do I need other people for? So clearly, this is a line only women end up saying. People need encouragement; that's the whole point of being social. Unless it's not, and the point is cannibalism.
 






morita

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I was saying this since back during the summer. Anytime you disagree with her, him, herm, shim, whatever the fuck is a gender in 2021.

Thing is the poster gets hostile. Really hostile. And contradictory
"The only thing you and I have in common is we're both worried about what I'm doing" — @crissle
 






morita

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So your assuming every woman on earth is a gold digger.

@morita - this is why I called out your nonsense bullshit.

you asked why wealthy high quality women would “slum it” - I told you. Wealthy men are assholes. They don’t treat people well, especially women. But you will even blame that on the women too. Is there anything you won’t blame a woman for?
Blaming women, huh?
Sorry, not sorry. I don’t understand women who make caricatures of themselves and in turn give all women a bad name - which gives ammo to the men who are inclined to hate us and treat us poorly (both on micro and macro levels) anyway.

Micro and macro meaning personally and policy wise if that wasn’t clear.
You're literally saying that the reason men don't respect you is because some women out there don't present themselves in a way that YOU personally don't deem respectable enough.
Do you realize that's how r*pe culture works??? That if a woman is not dressing in a way that people deem "respectable" enough, not behaving in a way that is respectable enough, then she deserves whatever violence or abuse that come her way.
You're not challenging the system, you're just palying by men's rules because that's more convenient than going against the statues quo.
 






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Cintra

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Blaming women, huh?

You're literally saying that the reason men don't respect you is because some women out there don't present themselves in a way that YOU personally don't deem respectable enough.
Do you realize that's how r*pe culture works??? That if a woman is not dressing in a way that people deem "respectable" enough, not behaving in a way that is respectable enough, then she deserves whatever violence or abuse that come her way.
You're not challenging the system, you're just palying by men's rules because that's more convenient than going against the statues quo.
I disagree that those materialistic factors don't count. I'm not ugly so why should I go for an ugly man? And if a man doesn't have any money it could be a reflection of poor work ethic or low ambition. Being self-sufficient and financially independant isn't the same as being rich.
But you hate all men. You said so.
They are your political enemies.

So why does their looks or their money count at all?
Is it ok to sleep with the enemy if they are rich? To hang on their arm in a pretty pretty dresses?

btw, a random thought, not directed anyone.
How do cis hardcore feminists deal with this dichotomy?
That they both hate and desire men.
Or all hardcore feminists lesbians?
 






justjess

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Blaming women, huh?

You're literally saying that the reason men don't respect you is because some women out there don't present themselves in a way that YOU personally don't deem respectable enough.
Do you realize that's how r*pe culture works??? That if a woman is not dressing in a way that people deem "respectable" enough, not behaving in a way that is respectable enough, then she deserves whatever violence or abuse that come her way.
You're not challenging the system, you're just palying by men's rules because that's more convenient than going against the statues quo.
No. What I’m saying is that women that act horribly give all women a bad name. I never weighed in on whether that was right or not. I certainly do not want to be judged as a woman by the way YOU behave. But that’s what will happen. Just like hateful horrible men give ALL men a bad name. Difference is structurally those men have more power so even “good men” contribute. I thought you were in college? Isn’t reading comprehension and the ability to deduce nuance prerequisites for a college level education?

furthermore your original statements were “I wouldn’t date a broke man” and “I won’t date an ugly man” - there was no nuance or further explanation you are now trying to walk that back and add context but that wasn’t there before. And no, there are plenty of broke men and women who are hardworking and not morally flawed. If you haven’t noticed this economy is shit. While being “broke” could indicate some other issue many times it does not. If your focusing on looks (Or money) instead of character... your looking for the wrong things imo. You are validating every stereotype sexist men have about women by posting things like this. Every hateful incel that is convinced women want nothing but “alphas” and monkey branch off to the next best thing at the drop of a dime. I don’t see how that helps women at all.
 






morita

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No. What I’m saying is that women that act horribly give all women a bad name. I never weighed in on whether that was right or not. I certainly do not want to be judged as a woman by the way YOU behave. But that’s what will happen. Just like hateful horrible men give ALL men a bad name. Difference is structurally those men have more power so even “good men” contribute.
And I say this is bullshit.
Men who behave "horribly" are judged as individuals, not for their gender. People can't even discuss systemic oppression and male violence without idiots claiming "not all meen!". It's women who are othered because historically that's always been the case. The female perspective has always been considered not worthwhile so when a woman speaks up about male violence or misogyny, it's dismissed because women were always labelled irrational or too emotional, so everything that comes out of our mouth is automatically invalidated...until men, or medias run by men co-sign it (even my male friends don't believe me when I tell them street harassement or workplace harassement happens to women very often). Only then, is it taken seriously. Like it did for the metoo movement. Women always spoke up it wasn't taken seriosuly until mass media ran by men publicized the stories. Women weren't even treated or seen as people for a long time, they were just men's property.
What were you saying in the other thread?? Oh yeah, "mICro vS MacRO" LOL.
I thought you were in college? Isn’t reading comprehension and the ability to deduce nuance prerequisites for a college level education?
Again, lame. Me being in college (even if I was that's none of your business) has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.
furthermore your original statements were “I wouldn’t date a broke man” and “I won’t date an ugly man”- there was no nuance or further explanation you are now trying to walk that back and add context but that wasn’t there before.
Learn how to read.
I posted I wouldn't date an ugly man and you came to the conclusion I only care about looks. If I make a thread about cats does that mean that's all I care about in life??? That's dumb.
You think that what people post here is all there is to them because you basically live on this forum (you have 11000 posts). Like I said, you need to go out more.
And I don't owe anyone an explanation for my individual choices, especially not complete strangers. I'm not in court.
You are validating every stereotype sexist men have about women by posting things like this. Every hateful incel that is convinced women want nothing but “alphas” and monkey branch off to the next best thing at the drop of a dime. I don’t see how that helps women at all.
Seriously, incels? I can't take you seriously if you use them as a frame of reference, sorry.
You need to ask yourself why you put so much wieght onto what these misogynist degenerates are thinking. I certainly don't care what incels think. You can date as many ugly and broke men as you want: it's not gonna improve the female condition. They hate you because you're a woman, not because you did xyz.
It's pretty clear from your responses that you have internalized these stereotypes you talk about; otherwise you would totally reject them instead of telling women the problem is with what they post. You're judging other women based on a value system that was set up by your oppressors, so what does that mke you?
I'm not living my life based on what people who hate me for being a woman think of me. I have other things to worry about.
 






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Cintra

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Femcels?
Going their own way.

They love what they hate and they hate what they desire.

Poop, poor things.
(imaginary cat meme)
 






justjess

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And I say this is bullshit.
Men who behave "horribly" are judged as individuals, not for their gender. People can't even discuss systemic oppression and male violence without idiots claiming "not all meen!". It's women who are othered because historically that's always been the case. The female perspective has always been considered not worthwhile so when a woman speaks up about male violence or misogyny, it's dismissed because women were always labelled irrational or too emotional, so everything that comes out of our mouth is automatically invalidated...until men, or medias run by men co-sign it (even my male friends don't believe me when I tell them street harassement or workplace harassement happens to women very often). Only then, is it taken seriously. Like it did for the metoo movement. Women always spoke up it wasn't taken seriosuly until mass media ran by men publicized the stories. Women weren't even treated or seen as people for a long time, they were just men's property.
What were you saying in the other thread?? Oh yeah, "mICro vS MacRO" LOL.

Again, lame. Me being in college (even if I was that's none of your business) has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.

Learn how to read.
I posted I wouldn't date an ugly man and you came to the conclusion I only care about looks. If I make a thread about cats does that mean that's all I care about in life??? That's dumb.
You think that what people post here is all there is to them because you basically live on this forum (you have 11000 posts). Like I said, you need to go out more.
And I don't owe anyone an explanation for my individual choices, especially not complete strangers. I'm not in court.

Seriously, incels? I can't take you seriously if you use them as a frame of reference, sorry.
You need to ask yourself why you put so much wieght onto what these misogynist degenerates are thinking. I certainly don't care what incels think. You can date as many ugly and broke men as you want: it's not gonna improve the female condition. They hate you because you're a woman, not because you did xyz.
It's pretty clear from your responses that you have internalized these stereotypes you talk about; otherwise you would totally reject them instead of telling women the problem is with what they post. You're judging other women based on a value system that was set up by your oppressors, so what does that mke you?
I'm not living my life based on what people who hate me for being a woman think of me. I have other things to worry about.
Right... the only true and “good” feminist is one who hates and rejects men - of course unless they are handsome and rich. Makes soo much sense :rolleyes:

newsflash: instead of rejecting the “judgements of your oppresser” YOU are in fact internalizing them to the extent that you are using them yourself as a weapon. Don’t fool yourself into believing your above them, you are even more beholden to them and it’s sad cuz you don’t even realize it.

in a perfect world I’d hope to be judged for who I am as a human being. I’d hope we ALL were. Rather then our genitalia or some random other materialistic inconsequential “trait” that someone assigns to us. There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever.
 






morita

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Right... the only true and “good” feminist is one who hates and rejects men - of course unless they are handsome and rich. Makes soo much sense
Again with trying to put words in my mouth and imagining things I didn't say. You're literally arguing with yourself at this point.

And you do realize that some people are just average in every department? Whether it's looks or money; Or are you just too slow to comprehend that? Are you only capale of thinking in binary, because nuance is too far beyond your mental capacity, which is why you think "not broke" automatically means rich.
It's more like you're a disingenous overreacting idiot who's projecting your own insecurities.
here is what you said "boohoo I'm more than a breast size and a vagina!!". If men treat you as such then take up your issue with THEM. DON'T FUCKING PUSH IT ON ME.

newsflash: instead of rejecting the “judgements of your oppresser” YOU are in fact internalizing them to the extent that you are using them yourself as a weapon. Don’t fool yourself into believing your above them, you are even more beholden to them and it’s sad cuz you don’t even realize it.
Words like "ugly" and/or "broke" are descriptive. And someone's physical appearance is the first thing we see about them, so please don't pretend not to judge people by their looks, because that's not true.
What about those Adam Sandler movies depicting a schlubby dude who gets the hot girl, isn't it also detrimental to women? It makes men think they're entitled to have everything they want (which is the message they've been given since day one). Which in turn, makes them get angry when it doesn't happen in real. Yet movies like this create this mass delusion. And that's why we have incels (the incels you love so much), bc they can't live up to that fantasy so they end up taking their anger onto ALL women.
Playing different sections of the oppressed class against one another is what they do to ensure their supremacy. Look at you, you've adopted this sexist narrative of fucking incels. You're doing their work for them. It might make the oppressor reward you for being a good attack dog who barks when he says "bark", but it's not gonna liberate you; you're still their subordinate and they don't respect you more.
They might give you a little pat on the head though.
 






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justjess

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Again with trying to put words in my mouth and imagining things I didn't say. You're literally arguing with yourself at this point.

And you do realize that some people are just average in every department? Whether it's looks or money; Or are you just too slow to comprehend that? Are you only capale of thinking in binary, because nuance is too far beyond your mental capacity, which is why you think "not broke" automatically means rich.
It's more like you're a disingenous overreacting idiot who's projecting your own insecurities.
here is what you said "boohoo I'm more than a breast size and a vagina!!". If men treat you as such then take up your issue with THEM. DON'T FUCKING PUSH IT ON ME.


Words like "ugly" and/or "broke" are descriptive. And someone's physical appearance is the first thing we see about them, so please don't pretend not to judge people by their looks, because that's not true.
What about those Adam Sandler movies depicting a schlubby dude who gets the hot girl, isn't it also detrimental to women? It makes men think they're entitled to have everything they want (which is the message they've been given since day one). Which in turn, makes them get angry when it doesn't happen in real. Yet movies like this create this mass delusion. And that's why we have incels (the incels you love so much), bc they can't live up to that fantasy so they end up taking their anger onto ALL women.
Playing different sections of the oppressed class against one another is what they do to ensure their supremacy. Look at you, you've adopted this sexist narrative of fucking incels. You're doing their work for them. It might make the oppressor reward you for being a good attack dog who barks when he says "bark", but it's not gonna liberate you; you're still their subordinate and they don't respect you more.
They might give you a little pat on the head though.
No Einstein. You sound like an incel pretending to be a feminist. That’s just the facts. Sorry if they are inconvenient. I skipped right over literally everything else you said because it isn’t worth my time.
 






morita

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No Einstein. You sound like an incel pretending to be a feminist. That’s just the facts. Sorry if they are inconvenient. I skipped right over literally everything else you said because it isn’t worth my time.
Really weird... because you're the one mentionning incel ideology to try and prove your point #justsaying. People always tell on themselves.

"Not worth your time" yet you still took the time to respond. You could have ignored it altogether. That's why I said you need to log out and get a life.:rolleyes:
 






Dusktilldown

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How are you supposed to treat somebody who wouldnt even give you the time of day if it werent for your wealth and status?
what do you/men have to give besides money? If men had something valuable to offer in the first place, why would they need to prevent women from having access to financial independance and forcing them to stay at home in the first place?
 






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Dusktilldown

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what do you/men have to give besides money?
@Lyfe your silence speaks louder than words on this. :rolleyes:


But seriously men hold majority of the world wealth, invented the money system so they could get control over women. Now that women are economically disadvantaged for the most part in comparison to men - you have thrid world countries in which women can barely go to school because it's too expensive, so their only options in life are to get married to a man that will take care of them, or sell their bodies to make ends meet, in other words: be a prostitute for one man or a prostitute for several men - all because men have been invested since day one in keeping women down. In my homecountry it's totally common for young girls who turn 18 to start looking for a hsuabnd who will provide for them because the country is so poor, there are no job opportunities, and unless you leave the country, like my parents did you havee no prospects of havign amore comfortable life. I'm lucky to live in a western country where I have the opportunity to get a degree. I'm a smart and independant person, and I have no doubts that I can find a good job and accomplish a lot, even if I did choose to be with someone with more money than me, that would still doesn't diminish any of my accomplishment. I'm not less of a person just because I'm in a relationship/married with so and so.
Me being able to succeed in a system where men are disproportionally advantaged doesnt change the fact that men have put everything in place to prevent women from having access to money, to keep us at home. And now they (men and approval-seekign females) have the audacity to call us "gold diggers". A sexist term btw because it's only used for women. Whereas if men go for older women who have a bunch of money, they're not shamed for it. I heard people use dehumanizing language like "she's just a pair of tits or ass" for women who go for rich men (btw I'm not callign them "powerful" because that's subjective, a man who doesn't have a lot of money can hold a lot of influence within his community). This is pure unadultered misogyny. Not to mention also contempt for rich people:
rich marries rich = gold digger
poor marries rich = 100% gold digger
(rich marries down --->) poor marries poor = THAT'S REAL LOVE! ❤

This is so fucking idiotic to me, if we follow this logic only poor people can marry. Not to mention there are people who are neither one nor the other (neither rich nor poor) but that would blow people's mind to think with such nuance *sarcasm* (Like I said in my binary thinking thread, you need to lay it all out in such black and white terms for people to understand, otherwise tehy're too slow and won't get it). Are we really still pretending that relationships and matrimony have nothing to do with money? At this day and age? First of all, doting still exists in certain countries like India. And originally women were literally sold by their fathers in marriage. Men owned their daughters sexually and gave her to another man, in exchange of money. Marriage was basically a contract btw one man and another man. And women and girls were reduced to a property.
This is still partially true nowadays for anyone who has read the economico-sexual contract by Paola Tabet. In which she details how women are negociating their sexual favours to secure a husband (exemple: showing off your body but waiting x amount of time to have sex). And young men are essentially trying to impress women by showcasing their abs on their profile pics (sign of health and fertility) and their economic power to show women that they can be a great provider that will protect her and their kids. The reason women look for security and safety is because men are highly predatory, and having a man, especially if he's respected and feared in his community is a surefire way of obtaining that.
I'm not saying the wheels aren't turning and society starts thinking less in terms of binary, but I'm aware people here are way older and need things to be broken down in such a way. I'm gen-z and I find men of my generation to be extremely effeminate, that's not to say it's a bad thing since hyper masculinity is a social construct. The myth that there is some kind of "alpha male" is starting to crumble down, because this myth only exist so long as women are economically and systematically oppressed. Calling women gold diggers and some men "alphas" is just very simplistic. And a way to totally ignore/gloss over power dynamics that have been goign around for thousands of years.
These myths about masculinityhave not only been reinforced by men who play into it, but also by women who are pushing gender expectations on men and holding them on a pedestal/some sort of standards that are unrealistic. No Jane, your man isn't made of steel, he wishes he would be able to cry in peace, wear dresses, crown flowers, and do ballet or drag-queen competitions. I really believe that, because most of the non-binary men that I know are probably the best people, they're sensitive, have a big heart, are funny as hell and I would love for all men to be this raw and real.
 






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