The New Left and Feminism - A Right Winge

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ok im seeing so many confuse (purposely or not) what feminism is and the different types because so many are wither confused, refuse to acknowledge, misinterpret and misinform about feminism.
Ill even give the good and bad because ive done a masters history with a module on feminist history, so ive got a good understanding of the history, from a good university not a gender studies, woke university but one that taught the good and bad and encouraged debate.

The basic tenets of feminism is

Feminism: Belief in and desire for equality between the sexes. The belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities." It encompasses social, political and economic equality.

However feminism is an umbrella term for different groups that have splintered off, disagree and yes waves.

the waves of feminism are

First wave or suffrage - the main aim was to give women the vote, however it also encompassed education, the right to practice as doctors ( women were banned), and to a lesser extent black women's rights, including Indian feminists fighting for Indias independence from Britain.

Pros - obviously more freedoms for women such as the vote, legal rights, and the right to own homes, land, and practice as doctors.

Cons - It was prominently a middle class endeavour, there was no enthesis on working class women, and black women were often ignored or outright chased out of suffrage groups as many suffragettes believed in eugenics and the superiority of white women. also the suffragettes also used excessive and violent manners to gain the vote ( not to be confused with the suffragists who did not use violent methods). some cases of suffragettes shaming men for not going to war in WW1

Second wave - came about post WW2. WW2 saw people looking nostalgically to the pre world war era, in the late 19th, early 20th century. In the 1950s people adopted the Victorian ideal of the middle class house wife. This led to a resurgence of feminism in the late 1950s early 1960s. Many girls who had witnessed depressed unfulfilled mothered looked for independence through careers, art music, entertainment ect. plus the introduction of the pill gave women more freedom.
This wave focused on workers rights, especially women's rights in the work place which were non-existent, while also focusing on an industry which was using women's bodies for entertainment ( beauty pageants, advertising, film).
Its worth noting women never did burn bras that is a myth, some women did try and get a permit to burn aprons as a form of protest but were denied so it never happened.
Its also worth noting first wave feminists did not like second wave feminism because they felt it was to loose

Pros - more worker rights not just for women but for men, the introduction of maternity leave, health and safety laws ect. Women had more freedom to earn money. The had more freedoms to enjoy relations, were not condemned to breed or to rely on husbands.

cons - again a working class movement, did not focus on working class women or black women who were both groups that already worked,often in low paid jobs. Focused on forcing women into being anti-beauty which led to anti-choices for women, including women being condemned for choosing housewifery. Started to drift into man hating territory, instead of equality.

womanism - not technically a wave but worth noting, it was created by black women who were fed up with being ignored or not being included in the second wave of feminism. tends to go along with the black panther movement, however even the black panthers and womanism movement clashed due to the black panthers sexist tendencies

Third wave - this is the most confused or misrepresented and is probably the most controversial.
Third wave feminism is known for its emphasis on intersectionality. the term was introduced by Kimberlé Williams Crenshaw in 1989, to explain how people experience multiple layers of prejudice due to a number of reasons, such as race, sex, disabilities, sexual orientation. for example a person who is a black disabled woman will experience prejudice for being black, female and disabled, while an able bodied white woman would only experience sexism. This form of feminism is the most controversial due to its push against what third wavers term as white feminism ( second wave).
It also focuses on body positivity, such as women enjoying sex, and a focus on being the same as men.
End of Genders, with a focus on androgynous looks.

Pros - led to women gaining the right to own their own bank accounts, loans and mortgages without their husbands or fathers permission, also led to the end of marital r*pe being legal

Cons - intersectionality led to many women feeling alienated from feminism, many women did not feel welcome or happy with the movement. The focus on women being the same as men also alienated many women from the movement. girl power, ladette culture ect put many off feminism

Fourth wave - Fourth wave is reality new, first coming into the fold around 2016. Fourth wave is probably more controversial than third wave and is often confused with third wave due to its infancy. in fact it has split into two factions.

1 - liberal feminism - an extension of intersectionality, leading to trans women being included into feminism. Focus on seeing sex work as good and healthy, enthesis on sexuality, LGBT and trans rights. tends to ignore traditional or women's rights due to the obsession with trans issues. More like a fundamental religious movement

2 - radical feminism - takes there ideals from second wave. believes trans women are not welcome and is fighting to stop the inclusion of LGBT rights being confused with women's rights. spends exorbitant amounts of time on fighting trans ideology and inclusion. fights sex work seeing it as exploitation. believes women should be able to chose their destiny eg housewife, childfree, career or a mix

pros - to early to determine

cons - to much infighting. libfems - focus to much on trans rights, also the emphasis pushing sexual deviancy. has become a gay rights movement. radfems - lots of in fighting, some times zealous.

misandry - worth noting as some feminist groups are anti male, and isolationist, but not all feel this way and this is a misrepresentation


hopefully this helps some people gather an idea on what feminism is
 

irrationalNinja

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Since when is feminism causing men to be meth heads, drug addicts, abusers, dead beat fathers, gamblers and alcoholics and so on. Because the last time i checked, those things are more responsible for society being destroyed than women getting jobs.
But now we have women who want to be meth heads, drug addicts, abusers, dead beat mothers, gamblers and alcoholics in their attempts to show everyone they are just as capable as men, if not more-so. Doesn’t look good on women.
 

manama

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But now we have women who want to be meth heads, drug addicts, abusers, dead beat mothers, gamblers and alcoholics in their attempts to show everyone they are just as capable as men, if not more-so. Doesn’t look good on women.
So feminism is making women meth heads? How far did you stretch your leg to reach that conclusion?
 
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But now we have women who want to be meth heads, drug addicts, abusers, dead beat mothers, gamblers and alcoholics in their attempts to show everyone they are just as capable as men, if not more-so. Doesn’t look good on women.
so basically women are human like men and make the same mistakes, teh only difference is men use women making the same mistakes as an exuse for saying women arent as good as men or that women should not have the same rights.

your basically holding women up to a higher standard while simultaneously excusing men for the same thing
 

Lyfe

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Its like I have been saying who can really quantify how the feminist movement as a whole has affected society? There is the ripple effect and feminism caused a chain reaction. What leads people to substance abuse? Whos to say feminism hasnt in some way or form contributed to certain voids in peoples life that they would seek to fill with a high...
 

Lyfe

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In fact i would be willing to bet it has considering feminism altered the dynamic of relations within a family, it altered the family construct. Into what? Anything sustainable? Not only that, but it gave women a new means in which they measure their worth and life by. It set a new standard for them. What happens if a women fails to meet this standard? She develops low self esteem and low self worth. That leads to a whole host of mental health issues, depression.
 

justjess

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In fact i would be willing to bet it has considering feminism altered the dynamic of relations within a family, it altered the family construct. Into what? Anything sustainable? Not only that, but it gave women a new means in which they measure their worth and life by. It set a new standard for them. What happens if a women fails to meet this standard? She develops low self esteem and low self worth. That leads to a whole host of mental health issues, depression.
The IR altered relations within a family for the millionth time and before that the development of agriculture. Feminism only sought to give women a better position within the already dramatically altered societal and economic conditions.
 

Lyfe

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The IR altered relations within a family for the millionth time and before that the development of agriculture. Feminism only sought to give women a better position within the already dramatically altered societal and economic conditions.
...and for the millionth time its not that simple there was a paychology or social engineering campaign that gave women a certain perception. Just the fact that me and others are met with the same talking points feminists use of male oppression and abuse of power prove that. Thsese talking points came from somewhere. This mentality came from somewhere... It was and is part of the feminist pitch and respahing of female thought.
 

justjess

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...and for the millionth time its not that simple there was a paychology or social engineering campaign that gave women a certain perception. Just the fact that me and others are met with the same talking points feminists use of male oppression and abuse of power prove that. Thsese talking points came from somewhere. This mentality came from somewhere... It was and is part of the feminist pitch and respahing of female thought.
Or maybe that proveS that a large amount of women have very shitty experiences with men in their lives. If you told us men were horrible but all the men we knew were fantastic we’d never believe you. People are not fucking stupid nor is it that easy to lead them to believe something that is completely untrue.
 

Lyfe

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Or maybe that proveS that a large amount of women have very shitty experiences with men in their lives. If you told us men were horrible but all the men we knew were fantastic we’d never believe you. People are not fucking stupid nor is it that easy to lead them to believe something that is completely untrue.
Look at BLM. Seems easy enough...
 

justjess

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Look at BLM. Seems easy enough...
Are you that blind? If blacks people didn’t have a significant history of being treated badly by cops and authorities they would have never signed up for blm. You can sit here and say white men have never done anything wrong, men have never done anything wrong, the authorities have never done anything wrong... etc etc. but denial isnt going to result in anything being solved
 

Lyfe

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Are you that blind? If blacks people didn’t have a significant history of being treated badly by cops and authorities they would have never signed up for blm. You can sit here and say white men have never done anything wrong, men have never done anything wrong, the authorities have never done anything wrong... etc etc. but denial isnt going to result in anything being solved
...so then dont be surprised by more men standing against feminism or act like there is no justifiable grounds for it.
 

justjess

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...so then dont be surprised by more men standing against feminism or act like there is no justifiable grounds for it.
Are you serious? Men can’t seem to acknowledge any culpability for anything ever huh? That’s the whole root of the problem in case you missed it. So don’t be surprised if more and more women pull further and further away from the roles you would like to see them move further into.
 

Lyfe

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So is the root of the problem acctually men or the IR? And feminists cant take any culpibility for any of the toxic affects their campaign has left in society?

Most women arent even feminists. Why would they pull away? Perhaps only the proud ones who arent open to constructice criticism.. Lets say more women did refuse to partake in any act considered traditional... How would that go for their biological inperitive and maternal desire for offspring? How would that help them find someone to father their child? Where does that leave women? Masculine? No man wants a masculine wife just like no woman wants a feminine man. Its not how attraction and biology work.
 

justjess

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Do me a favor... until such time as you decide you are going to acknowledge that everything your seeing now has existed to some extent throughout history, that the causes of it becoming more widespread and visible are complicated, that our economic system/religious institutions/men have culpability that they need to accept and amend for... just leave the topic alone. All you seem to want to do is blame every societal issue we have on women and feminism without any actual reflection of the multiple interrelated factor which got us to this point and without an honest attempt at finding a mutually agreeable solution. That’s not worth the time for me.
 

Lyfe

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Do me a favor... until such time as you decide you are going to acknowledge that everything your seeing now has existed to some extent throughout history, that the causes of it becoming more widespread and visible are complicated, that our economic system/religious institutions/men have culpability that they need to accept and amend for... just leave the topic alone. All you seem to want to do is blame every societal issue we have on women and feminism without any actual reflection of the multiple interrelated factor which got us to this point and without an honest attempt at finding a mutually agreeable solution. That’s not worth the time for me.
Show me where i said I blame everything on women feminism. Thats simply untrue.


This is a thread on feminism is it not? Why would we be discussing all the other factors of society's decay in a thread on feminism?

I also did offer my ideas as to a solution in case you missed.
 

justjess

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Show me where i said I blame everything on women feminism. Thats simply untrue.


This is a thread on feminism is it not? Why would we be discussing all the other factors of society's decay in a thread on feminism?

I also did offer my ideas as to a solution in case you missed.
Your solution is to revoke women’s rights and engage in your own social manipulation campaign to convince them that’s what makes them happy. And yes you would discuss other factors since everything is intertwined and without doing so you are missing the forest for the trees
 

Lyfe

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Your solution is to revoke women’s rights and engage in your own social manipulation campaign to convince them that’s what makes them happy. And yes you would discuss other factors since everything is intertwined and without doing so you are missing the forest for the trees
Nope. Try again
 
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