The original diet of mankind and the Old Testament Dietary Laws, do they still apply?

Red Sky at Morning

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I'm going to post on health laws of not eating blood and animal fat. Red try and study the Bible and find out how what is said in Acts 15 doesn't cancel out what Paul said. Paul made it clear if a Christian finds out meat/food has been offered/sacrificed to idols/gods they are not to buy or eat it. I can't explain everything to you though. Remember the Bible does not contradict itself. It does not work against itself. God bless.
Broadly speaking, God’s moral law doesn’t change but there were additional laws given to Israel that were specific to them and that had symbolic value as well. I don’t believe this second group of priestly laws apply today.
 

phipps

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Broadly speaking, God’s moral law doesn’t change but there were additional laws given to Israel that were specific to them and that had symbolic value as well. I don’t believe this second group of priestly laws apply today.
I disagree and so does the word of God. There were/are laws against idolatry, laws of sexual morality and the health laws (that were not given for the first time to Moses). As I have posted here the health laws come from Genesis, they were reiterated by Moses with more information but God's people before Israel ever existed knew about clean and unclean meat. These laws are universal and were not specific to the Jews. You have to determine by studying the Bible prayerfully what laws were specific to the Jews like the not mixing materials because of the Priests and what was meant for all humankind. This is not about what you or I believe, its about what God's Word says and how we obey it with the help of God.
 
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Matt 15:17-18

Do you not understand, that whatsoever entereth into the mouth, goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the privy?
But the things which proceed out of the mouth, come forth from the heart, and those things defile a man.


For me that settles it. The answer is no.
 

phipps

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This is satanic and sounds very much like what the infamous satanist Aleister Crowley said which is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." A Christian cannot do anything they want including breaking the law and think they will still be saved. That is contrary to the Word of God.

Matthew 7:21, Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

John 15:10, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love."

Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord."

2 Timothy 2:19, "Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.


You misunderstand Paul and take him out of context all the time as I explained to you before on another thread. It is not okay to break the law of God and Paul actually makes that clear in his writings. This is what Paul has said about not sinning/breaking the law.

Romans 6:14, 15, “Sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin (break the law) because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Romans 3:31, “Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.”


I know I keep saying this but the Bible does not contradict itself. Neither does Paul. Bye.
 

phipps

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Matt 15:17-18

Do you not understand, that whatsoever entereth into the mouth, goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the privy?
But the things which proceed out of the mouth, come forth from the heart, and those things defile a man.


For me that settles it. The answer is no.
I do and many Christians use these verses to justify eating unclean meat. They don't mean what they think. I posted about this scripture on this very thread here. Here is a shorter version though.

These are not my words but I agree with them and I've known about this subject for years.

"The subject in Matthew 15:1–20 is about eating without first washing the hands (verse 2). The focus here is not eating, but washing. The scribes taught that eating any food without a special ceremonial washing defiled the eater. Jesus said these ceremonial washings were meaningless. In verse 19, He listed certain evils: murders, adulteries, thefts, etc. Then He concluded, These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man” (verse 20).

The Bible is clear on clean and unclean meats and that does not change in both testaments and never will until Christ returns
 

phipps

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Difference being, Crowley's creed wasn't preceded with a somewhat relevant bit, ie. "Love God", wouldn't you say?
Its useless words and they don't matter because keeping the law of God proves our love of God. Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15). The law also shows us God's character and His love for us and shows us what sin is too (Proverbs 3:1-2, 29:18, Romans 3:20, James 1:23-25). If Christians can do anything they want how is that different to Aleister Crowley's saying? Love is not involved at all in that saying and Aleister's.
 
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Its useless words and they don't matter because keeping the law of God proves our love of God. Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15). The law also shows us God's character and His love for us and shows us what sin is too (Proverbs 3:1-2, 29:18, Romans 3:20, James 1:23-25). If Christians can do anything they want how is that different to Aleister Crowley's saying? Love is not involved at all in that saying and Aleister's.
If one loves God, then one loves truth and all that is good. How then would such a person not be allowed to do as he pleases?
 
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I do and many Christians use these verses to justify eating unclean meat. They don't mean what they think. I posted about this scripture on this very thread here. Here is a shorter version though.

These are not my words but I agree with them and I've known about this subject for years.

"The subject in Matthew 15:1–20 is about eating without first washing the hands (verse 2). The focus here is not eating, but washing. The scribes taught that eating any food without a special ceremonial washing defiled the eater. Jesus said these ceremonial washings were meaningless. In verse 19, He listed certain evils: murders, adulteries, thefts, etc. Then He concluded, These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man” (verse 20).

The Bible is clear on clean and unclean meats and that does not change in both testaments and never will until Christ returns
Yes, you've used this exact quote against me already.

To which I've already replied:

"Does the washing or not washing of hands change anything about the fact that what goes in your mouth ends up in the privvy? No. Therefore, completely irrelevant."
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Hebrews 10

Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified

11And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

15But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,

16“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”17then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”18Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
 

phipps

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If one loves God, then one loves truth and all that is good. How then would such a person not be allowed to do as he pleases?
Jesus' life on earth is our example. Loving the truth is not enough. We have to live according to the Word of God and not do what pleases us but what pleases God. We are to do God's will. Jesus said, "And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him" (John 8:29).
 
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phipps

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Yes, you've used this exact quote against me already.

To which I've already replied:

"Does the washing or not washing of hands change anything about the fact that what goes in your mouth ends up in the privvy? No. Therefore, completely irrelevant."
Context is key and what Jesus meant is very important to understand His point. It was not about food. There is only one truth in the Bible on any subject and as a Christian I want to know God's truth not man made doctrine. That is what is relevant to me and that is what I post here.

And not all food is equal is it? It may end up in the privvy but some food causes a lot of damage to the body as it gets digested. That is why there is a lot of illness based on poor diet. God wants supreme health for all of us hence the health laws. Jesus followed them too. I'll follow Him. I'm leaving for now. Bye.
 
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Jesus' life on earth is our example. Loving the truth is not enough. We have to live according to the Word of God and not do what pleases us but what pleases God. We are to do God's will. Jesus said, "And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him" (John 8:29).
I don't see how this contradicts what I said. Can one guided by the Holy Spirit do what he wills? It's the same principle.
 
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Context is key and what Jesus meant is very important to understand His point. It was not about food. There is only one truth in the Bible and as a Christian I want to know God's truth not man made doctrine. That is what is relevant to me and that is what I post here.

And not all food is equal is it? It may end up in the privvy but some food causes a lot of damage to the body as it gets digested. That is why there is a lot of illness based on poor diet. God wants supreme health for all of us hence the health laws. Jesus followed them too. I'll follow Him. I'm leaving for now. Bye.
I have a hard time believing Jesus put any importance on the washing of hands rather than do away with superstition.

Not all food is equal, but the overall message in the Gospel regarding diet is to resist gluttony, to not gratify your physical desires, but rather nourish your spirit.
 

A Freeman

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Yes, you've used this exact quote against me already.

To which I've already replied:

"Does the washing or not washing of hands change anything about the fact that what goes in your mouth ends up in the privvy? No. Therefore, completely irrelevant."
Wrong again. It's the main point of the passage, i.e. that the dirt on one's hands will go directly through one's bodily system without incident.

Matthew 15:1-20
15:1 Then came to Jesus lawyers and politicians, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the Tradition of the Elders? FOR THEY WASH NOT THEIR HANDS WHEN THEY EAT BREAD.
15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the COMMANDment of God by your Tradition?
15:4 For God Commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to [his] father or [his] mother, [It is] a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the Commandment of God of none effect by your Tradition (Talmud).
15:7 [Ye] hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is FAR from me.
15:9 But in vain they do worship Me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men (man-made laws/legislation).
15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the politicians were offended, after they heard this saying?
15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath NOT planted, shall be rooted up.
15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch (or Pit).

15:15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
15:16 And Jesus said, ARE YE ALSO YET WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING?
15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness (lies), blasphemies:
15:20 These are [the things] which defile a man:
BUT TO EAT WITH UNWASHEN HANDS DEFILETH NOT A MAN.

Unbelievers calling themselves "Christians" claim this passage gives them the "freedom" to ingest swine flesh, shellfish, scavenger birds and the rest of the animals that God created to be part of the planetary waste management system, which is why He COMMANDED us NOT to eat such filthy creatures, that are unfit for human consumption.

2000 years later, we literally have "mandatory" hand-washing stations set up in front of virtually every store, to ensure those foolish enough to believe in these man-made traditions -- NONE of which are Law -- poison themselves with the chemicals found in these "hand sanitizers", e.g. triclosan and wood grain alcohol. And people STILL don't get it.

Christ plainly stated that He did NOT come to destroy The Law God gave us, which will NEVER go away, and that anyone who taught others differently would be considered lowest of the low, i.e. "the least" in God's Eyes (Matt. 5:17-19). Why then would anyone come along and try to con others into believing Christ didn't really mean what He said, unless they were working for Satan (wittingly or otherwise)?

The reason for sharing with others that the perfect healthy diet found only in God's Law is for everyone on this planet, is NOT to deprive them of anything good; it's to help them avoid all of the diseases associated with the consumption of these filthy animals, like heart disease, strokes (where parasites from swine flesh find their way into the human brain and eats through the walls of a blood vessel), cancer, etc. Why must people invariably learn everything the hard way?

As it says throughout The Law, we are to learn to differentiate between the CLEAN and UNCLEAN, both spiritually and physically.
 
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A Freeman

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Hebrews 10

Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified

11And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

15But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,

16“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”17then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”18Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
How could anyone claim to have Father's (God's) Law written in their hearts and minds while still refusing to keep The Law?

Jesus died to pay the price for our LAWLESSNESS (sin). Shall we make a mockery of His Sacrifice by continuing to disobey The Commandments God gave us (His Law), thereby proving our hatred for Christ?

John 14:15 If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments.

John 14:21-24
14:21 He that hath my COMMANDments, and KEEPETH them, HE it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
14:22 Jude saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will obey my words: and my Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
14:24 He that loveth me not obeyeth not my sayings: and the Truth which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

1 John 2:3-4
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep His Commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth NOT His Commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in him.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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How could anyone claim to have Father's (God's) Law written in their hearts and minds while still refusing to keep The Law?

Jesus died to pay the price for our LAWLESSNESS (sin). Shall we make a mockery of His Sacrifice by continuing to disobey The Commandments God gave us (His Law), thereby proving our hatred for Christ?

John 14:15 If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments.

John 14:21-24
14:21 He that hath my COMMANDments, and KEEPETH them, HE it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
14:22 Jude saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will obey my words: and my Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
14:24 He that loveth me not obeyeth not my sayings: and the Truth which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

1 John 2:3-4
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep His Commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth NOT His Commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in him.
Keeping the Law won’t save you - you MUST be born again. If you are, you will want to keep God’s commandments. The Holy Spirit has never convicted me about eating a sausage though.
 
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