Lefort3000
Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2020
- Messages
- 48
None, obviously. It still happened well after Christianity started. I can also point to a steady loss of religion/the Church's power, different/worse religious doctrines, and capitalism/wealth interests being reasons for the Euro slave trade. Not the bullshit reason you have. Slavery is major part of Islam. If Muslims had the power to nowadays and if they had a proper understanding of their religion, they'd be doing the same shit. That is if they didnt apostasize, but they wouldnt be able to because theyd be murdered. Great stuff.Again, show me any other slave trade which killed that many slaves and enslaved that many people in such a short time frame?
Oh yea, theres context? Give me the context. No proof provided again.Don't be throwing hadiths at me when you have no idea what it's talking about. There's context to it all.
That second full Quran verse had context (hence "their", ect...), the first one had generalized wording, and no verse abrogating it, so it would be the final ruling. Regardless, most of the those Quran verses were actually relatively positive as far as slavery is considered. But according to you, they're all contextual and only apply to the pagans of that time. I guess that means Islamic slavery is more brutal than I thought, thanks for clearing that up.Also, the Quranic verse in regards to slaves as booty was when the pagan men and WOMEN were advocating for the death of the prophet and other Muslims and when the pagans lost the war they started they were taken as slaves.
However, in your Bible your Jesus man god commanded his prophets to kill a whole group of people just solely based on what their ancestors did to the Israelites hundreds of years prior.
Let's not forget your god also, commanding killing of all the men, women, animals, children, and baby boys who had nothing to do with the wars. The only people they didn't kill were the little virgin girls who were then kept as sex slaves.
YHWH called for those massacres. Your "seal of the Prophets, the one that was prophesizedin Dueteronomy even though he actually wasnt" Mohammad said that he followed the God of the Bible as well. Interesting how you can deride YHWH when your religion says that.
The calls for massacres were called herem warfare. They accurred to a large degree among Canaanite tribes, and more heavily twice I believe apart from that (the Midianites as well as the Ammonites later down the line, the one you're directly referencing here).
10 “When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall [f]offer it terms of peace. 11 If it [g]agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. 12 However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. 13 When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the [h]men in it with the edge of the sword. 14 Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall [i]use the spoil of your enemies which the Lord your God has given you. 15 Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations [j]nearby. 16 Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 But you shall [k]utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the Lord your God has commanded you, 18 so that they may not teach you to do according to all their detestable things which they have done for their gods, so that you would sin against the Lord your God.
Sounds pretty similiar to the Muslim stuff tbh.
However, what you ignore about Herem warfare is who died in it. In any war regardless in ancient times, the men of fighting age would've been largely slaughtered if one side lost. The women and children would've been taken as wives/slaves, along with the remaining men. In this case, the women and children were killed too. Oh no, women actually have to die in warfare as well, its horrible! Not really. As for the children, sure, thats rough, but child mortality rates were estimated to be about 50% up to the age of 15 then.
The last thing you ignore is what those civilizations did to deserve this. The Bible cites a large amount of sins as evidence against the Canaanites. Just as Sodom and Gomorrah got destroyed for their sins, these people got massacred as well. You also ignore how they could've been treating others. The Ammonites attacked the Israelites when when they were vulnerable, a culture that does that would be doing that to other vulnerable tribes as well. Its entirely possible that the Canaanites were also immoral in regards to their treatment of neighbors. Finally, theres proof that herem warfare was used by surrounding nations:
Mesha Stele - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The Muslims are commanded in Surah 9 to fight Jews and Christians and murder all the pagans they find after their treaty or whatever is up. In before "yOuR iGnOrInG cONteXt".I challenge you. Show me one verse in the Quran that shows Muslims killing innocent people, animals, children, and enslaving little kids especially virgins? Heck if you like your hadiths so much show me one authentic Hadith which is comparable to verses in your Bible in regards to killing people for the crim s of others, and for the killing of children, and enslaving free people especially little virgin girls.
These verses have nothing changing that command (abrogation) after them, and no direct context given. They can very easily be interpreted as calls to conquering and murder.
I already showed you Hadiths on enslavement and sexual slavery. Also, please tell me when the Quran says "fight the Jews and Christians to subjugate them", how that isnt a call to violence for other's sins. Im sure the vassal Christian state killing Mohammad messenger, if that even happened, meant that all Christians that Mohammadan could get their hands on had to be subjugated.