Why aren't all women feminists?

Aero

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Eh not exactly.

I think if you’re an adult, you should bare enough common sense to understand toxicity. The thing I am shocked by is the people who stay around abuse and toxicity like it’s the only thing they feel. If you seek help, then yeah I’m one to offer encouragement but if a victim repeatedly goes back to abuse. That’s a lost cause. Call it shallow, cold hearted whatever.

But my defense reaction towards toxicity/abuse is I’m going to steer clear of it. That’s me.

But again there are multiple factors involved.
Such as living/income, family etc.
Yes, everyone doesn't have a tree to climb up to avoid toxic people. I'm not too fond of the strategy anyway. I think women, especially, should fight back. Maybe running would be the best option if the system worked.

Either way, people have a right to stand up for themselves. Running away doesn't give people closure. In other words, they need to have a chance to face their true enemy. Not doing so is like never getting away, even if they do.
 

Maes17

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Yes, everyone doesn't have a tree to climb up to avoid toxic people. I'm not too fond of the strategy anyway. I think women, especially, should fight back. Maybe running would be the best option if the system worked.

Either way, people have a right to stand up for themselves. Running away doesn't give people closure. In other words, they need to have a chance to face their true enemy. Not doing so is like never getting away, even if they do.
Everyone has the freedom to choose who they mingle with. Choosing to stay and fight a dramatic battle cause you cannot let go of ego or choose some “virtuous” endeavor is not a smart way to approach things. Not everyone is an abuser or victim and this creates unnecessary stereotypes for eveyone.

Conflict, no matter how good intentions are. Sometimes it’s best to just walk away.
If you choose to go about your life that way, good for you and good luck.

But life isn’t always an uphill battle. I choose to see the good instead of the ugly.
Sure I get bothered by the stupidity that seems to grasp. But I just cannot feel sorry for people who choose to keep fighting when they have the human right to seek happiness. I get there is an awareness issue to raise and good will support good.
But understand the world does have it’s ugliness. If you let the ugliness dictate your actions to constant fighting then you’d be no different than the manipulative abuser.

*when I say you. I don’t mean you directly - figure of speech - hypothetically*

An eye for an eye leaves the world blind.
 

Aero

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Everyone has the freedom to choose who they mingle with. Choosing to stay and fight a dramatic battle cause you cannot let go of ego or choose some “virtuous” endeavor is not a smart way to approach things. Not everyone is an abuser or victim and this creates unnecessary stereotypes for eveyone.

Conflict, no matter how good intentions are. Sometimes it’s best to just walk away.
If you choose to go about your life that way, good for you and good luck.

But life isn’t always an uphill battle. I choose to see the good instead of the ugly.
Sure I get bothered by the stupidity that seems to grasp. But I just cannot feel sorry for people who choose to keep fighting when they have the human right to seek happiness. I get there is an awareness issue to raise and good will support good.
But understand the world does have it’s ugliness. If you let the ugliness dictate your actions to constant fighting then you’d be no different than the manipulative abuser.

*when I say you. I don’t mean you directly - figure of speech - hypothetically*

An eye for an eye leaves the world blind.
You seem like you are working overtime to make light of the situation. Idk how you got from targeted individuals, and corruption to "people mingling". More importantly, I don't see how wanting other people to have the opportunity to thrive is egotistical. One abuse victim runs and the abusers will be like "thank you, next". Ultimately it's a net less for thriving, and that's a selfish type of ideology.

Look, I support your right not to give a shit. But you are here making a veiled argument against justice. All because it's difficult, or you think it's a lost cause? Either way, I'm pretty sure the quote you dropped was talking about revenge. Which introduces some paradox when you really think about it.

Success is the best revenge. It's a type of fighting, and that can't be a waste of time. Can it?
 

Maes17

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You seem like you are working overtime to make light of the situation. Idk how you got from targeted individuals, and corruption to "people mingling". More importantly, I don't see how wanting other people to have the opportunity to thrive is egotistical. One abuse victim runs and the abusers will be like "thank you, next". Ultimately it's a net less for thriving, and that's a selfish type of ideology.

Look, I support your right not to give a shit. But you are here making a veiled argument against justice. All because it's difficult, or you think it's a lost cause? Either way, I'm pretty sure the quote you dropped was talking about revenge. Which introduces some paradox when you really think about it.

Success is the best revenge. It's a type of fighting, and that can't be a waste of time. Can it?
You and I process this differently. Hardly working overtime.

I’m presenting my view. I’m seeing your viewpoint, but we obviously have a different response to this subject. Not saying I’m right, you’re wrong vice versa.

I’m saying ultimately there are multiple factors that go into this subject. I don’t think I need to answer any further as you kinda answered for me in how multiple factors lead onto this.

If that makes sense
:)
 

Aero

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You and I process this differently. Hardly working overtime.

I’m presenting my view. I’m seeing your viewpoint, but we obviously have a different response to this subject. Not saying I’m right, you’re wrong vice versa.

I’m saying ultimately there are multiple factors that go into this subject. I don’t think I need to answer any further as you kinda answered for me in how multiple factors lead onto this.

If that makes sense
:)
Gotcha, maybe I misread something. And sure when it comes to day-to-day stuff we all mostly avoid toxic people. Nothing wrong with that. That's like another day in the office for some of us, which is another problem in and of itself.

Just like people try to teach women to avoid r*pe instead of teaching men not to be rapists. We are taught to avoid toxic people instead of teaching toxic people not to be so damn toxic. And to be clear, I don't think people suck. I don't focus on the ugly aspects of life, I just can't avoid them all.

Since I can't avoid it all, and I have the power to do something, I'm going to do something. In other words, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
 

Maes17

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Gotcha, maybe I misread something. And sure when it comes to day-to-day stuff we all mostly avoid toxic people. Nothing wrong with that. That's like another day in the office for some of us, which is another problem in and of itself.

Just like people try to teach women to avoid r*pe instead of teaching men not to be rapists. We are taught to avoid toxic people instead of teaching toxic people not to be so damn toxic. And to be clear, I don't think people suck. I don't focus on the ugly aspects of life, I just can't avoid them all.

Since I can't avoid it all, and I have the power to do something, I'm going to do something. In other words, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
Naw. You’re a smart soul my guy.
And yes, it’s always best to avoid toxicity for the sake of sanity, health and relationships.

Any poster here who fights for a voice heard.
Just don’t fall into that divide and conquer narrative that has trickled into every fabric of living
 

justjess

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It isn’t always a “choice” to just leave an abusive relationship. It isn’t that simple whatsoever.

also FYI: the MOST dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship is when she tries to leave. It often results in death. I really hate how this was just downplayed and turned into a shitty personal life choice.
 

justjess

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You didnt say all married women. I didn't either. I don't even know what this poster is complaining about.
I was talking about a particular type of women who make their roles as mother and as wife their entire identity. That article is a perfect exemple of it: "let me rip off all the social benefits that comes with dedicating my life to serving the oppressor and having his kids, then lemme complain thereafter that I threw all my opportunities of having a more exciting, more adventurous life away". As always some people need to go "what about meee??" it's not about you. No one cares. There are some things that have nothing to do with you, and there isn't anything wrong with it. Jesus!!

Maybe I should have put a #notallmarriedwomen disclaimer to accomodate people's feelings. LOL
Go fuck your self. It is not about me. It’s about YOUR irrational hatred of literally everyone on earth that isn’t a single black female who meets whatever other standards you decide in the moment. And your insistance for blaming the members of EVERY other group on earth for whatever problems you believe you have as a single black female. You hate men. Good for you. You hate white women. Isn’t that cute. You hate married people. Anything else we should add to the list?
 

justjess

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Do you think people are going to target a woman who got a man around?

One of my exes was in a situation like that. She was in a bitter custody battle and basically got railroaded by the lawyer with all the judge friends. She was also outspoken against the government. Anyway, to make a long story short, she always felt like she was being followed and tracked. People would drive by her house in the middle of the night, flashing their high beams in her window. And she had to get a job outside of that city. There's probably a ton more, but we don't keep in touch that much.

The point is not to blame it on marital status, it goes back to what was mentioned about social capital. I haven't researched targeted individuals in a while, but every case I was reading was a single guy or girl. Cops and serial abusing type "managers" pick their targets well. Look at the Armie Hammer and now Marilyn Manson scandals. Do we think those victims had a great support system? More importantly, was feminism really there for them when they needed it the most?

I can no longer tell if I'm straying from the topic between you and Morita. But I will finish by saying that if the strategy is to target the biggest offenders of abuse toward women, I'm game. And the reality is that we need to target the women who enable men to abuse women. Because they are out there, they're not average hard-working folks, they are corrupt, feeding off each other's lies.
Was your ex’s husband by any chance law enforcement? I’ve seen that a number of times where the abuser was law enforcement or connected to them in some way and every time the woman calls for help they participate in the abuse rather then try to stop it... I know this happens. I don’t think it has much to do with marital status - your ex was a targeted individual even before she left her husband, it’s just WHO she was being targeted by that changed (or rather expanded). I can have a rational productive conversation with YOU about this but tbh I think you added a lot of stuff to the original point which was just “fuck married women” or married women are somehow oppressing single women with their super duper enhanced social capital. Which I don’t see AT ALL. I have someone to open stuff and reach tall shelves for me whoop de do.

maybe single women Who have focused on careers instead should stop trying to hold back wives and mothers from progressing in theirs (mommy tracking doesn’t just happen with male bosses)

maybe single women should stop fucking married men like it’s a sport that earns them a medal specifically going after guys that are wearing wedding rings on purpose

If we are going to start accusing people of oppression based on marital status those are two other places we can look. Just to be fair and keep it balanced of course.

or alternatively we can focus on the commonalities we share rather then the differences to solve ACTUAL problems.

(FYI the women who are most likely to “sell” their daughters/pimp then/participate in their abuse.. are unmarried with the most common perpetrator Of sexual abuse being deemed a PARAMOUR - meaning an unmarried lover and not the child’s parent)
 

morita

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Go fuck your self. It is not about me. It’s about YOUR irrational hatred of literally everyone on earth that isn’t a single black female who meets whatever other standards you decide in the moment. And your insistance for blaming the members of EVERY other group on earth for whatever problems you believe you have as a single black female. You hate men. Good for you. You hate white women. Isn’t that cute. You hate married people. Anything else we should add to the list?
You really are crazy, aren't you??? Where the hell did I say all of this? You're the irrational one.
Literally you:
1612372201604.png

I said that marriage makes people more privileged, how in hell does that translate to "I hate married people". Don't twsit my words so that it fits your narrative. If we follow your logic I hate my parents because they're married, you should think twice before posting the idiocy that you post. Even if I did get married, my thoughts on marriage still don't change. I didn't accuse married people of oppressing single people, I don't know how anyone would come to that conclusion.
I only go in feminist spaces where there are exclusively woc because we share the same experience of knowing what it's like to be in that place where race and gender intersects. I would rather be with people with whom I don't have to explain intersectionality, I don't see the problem with being with people who share the same experience.
And I hate men as a group because they're my political enemy. I can't believe I have to explain this to a so-called "feminist".
I'm probably wasting my time explainign since your "feminism" seems to stop when people don't share your worldview or opinion.
 

Cintra

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Wtf is intersectionality anyway?

Just another way of labeling people and defining them?
And dividing them?
 

Aero

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Was your ex’s husband by any chance law enforcement? I’ve seen that a number of times where the abuser was law enforcement or connected to them in some way and every time the woman calls for help they participate in the abuse rather then try to stop it... I know this happens. I don’t think it has much to do with marital status - your ex was a targeted individual even before she left her husband, it’s just WHO she was being targeted by that changed (or rather expanded). I can have a rational productive conversation with YOU about this but tbh I think you added a lot of stuff to the original point which was just “fuck married women” or married women are somehow oppressing single women with their super duper enhanced social capital. Which I don’t see AT ALL. I have someone to open stuff and reach tall shelves for me whoop de do.

maybe single women Who have focused on careers instead should stop trying to hold back wives and mothers from progressing in theirs (mommy tracking doesn’t just happen with male bosses)

maybe single women should stop fucking married men like it’s a sport that earns them a medal specifically going after guys that are wearing wedding rings on purpose

If we are going to start accusing people of oppression based on marital status those are two other places we can look. Just to be fair and keep it balanced of course.

or alternatively we can focus on the commonalities we share rather then the differences to solve ACTUAL problems.

(FYI the women who are most likely to “sell” their daughters/pimp then/participate in their abuse.. are unmarried with the most common perpetrator Of sexual abuse being deemed a PARAMOUR - meaning an unmarried lover and not the child’s parent)
No, my ex's husband in that situation wasn't a cop. He was just another dirtbag who found the right *woman* lawyer who was friends with all the judges. If they had worked it out and stayed married, no bitter custody battle and no targetted individual status. So I don't know how you can say the example has nothing to do with being married.

Divorcing was the catalyst that turned my ex's life upside down. She lost custody of her child over the lies of a man and the woman lawyer who protected him. Anything that happened before that is irrelevant. Once people smelled her blood in the water the sharks started swarming.

I don't see how corruption like I described isn't an actual problem. If it happens in court, it happens at the work-place and in daily interactions. Also, nobody is saying be married or not married and problem solved. The point is being married you are less likely to get shit thrown at you.
 

morita

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maybe single women should stop fucking married men like it’s a sport that earns them a medal specifically going after guys that are wearing wedding rings on purpose
And let the man completely off the hook?? He's just as guilty. Maybe husbands should start respecting their wives, ever thought about this? You are the kind of "feminist" who would blame prostitutes instead of blamig husbands for going to see porstitutes behind their wives' backs too.
 

justjess

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No, my ex's husband in that situation wasn't a cop. He was just another dirtbag who found the right *woman* lawyer who was friends with all the judges. If they had worked it out and stayed married, no bitter custody battle and no targetted individual status. So I don't know how you can say the example has nothing to do with being married.

Divorcing was the catalyst that turned my ex's life upside down. She lost custody of her child over the lies of a man and the woman lawyer who protected him. Anything that happened before that is irrelevant. Once people smelled her blood in the water the sharks started swarming.

I don't see how corruption like I described isn't an actual problem. If it happens in court, it happens at the work-place and in daily interactions. Also, nobody is saying be married or not married and problem solved. The point is being married you are less likely to get shit thrown at you.
I am willing to bet that she was abused in some way shape or form WHILE married. Her husband was her abuser and she was a targeted individual even then. When she chose to leave (why leave if everything’s great?) and he lost control of the situation and the ability to keep targeting her 24/7 he involved other people in the abuse - So the people targeting her expanded. The Original catalyst wasn’t her leaving per se, her leaving just made it infinitely WORSE. That is what happens to abused women pretty much across the board - that’s why DV assistance agencies often make intricate plans to pull women out. It isn’t because they are being dramatic, it’s because it is necessary. Unfortunately, lawyers will do what they’re paid for and the majority of judges are elderly and “old school” or stupid - they don’t understand the pattern of violence in domestic situations and while they should there is no one pushing for that on a policy level. Even training them doesn’t mean they will put it in practice.

ive seen plenty of married women targeted by these same systems. I’ve seen numerous married and single men as well. Neighbors or scorned Lovers or ex friends or Pissed off family who call CPS once a week for years trying to get people’s kids taken away Or send them to jail etc - sometimes it works. There is more than one way to be a targeted individual and it isn’t just single people who end up in that situation. It is WAY more likely when your poor because you can’t afford your own pit bull lawyer and single women are more likely to be poor. So in that respect... there you have it. I don’t think focusing on the gender or marital status of some victims is going to help the overarching category of victims of the system. Maybe focusing on the one trait they all have in common would be wiser.
 

Cintra

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You really are crazy, aren't you??? Where the hell did I say all of this? You're the irrational one.
Literally you:
View attachment 51565

I said that marriage makes people more privileged, how in hell does that translate to "I hate married people". Don't twsit my words so that it fits your narrative. If we follow your logic I hate my parents because they're married, you should think twice before posting the idiocy that you post. Even if I did get married, my thoughts on marriage still don't change. I didn't accuse married people of oppressing single people, I don't know how anyone would come to that conclusion.
I only go in feminist spaces where there are exclusively woc because we share the same experience of knowing what it's like to be in that place where race and gender intersects. I would rather be with people with whom I don't have to explain intersectionality, I don't see the problem with being with people who share the same experience.
And I hate men as a group because they're my political enemy. I can't believe I have to explain this to a so-called "feminist".
I'm probably wasting my time explainign since your "feminism" seems to stop when people don't share your worldview or opinion.
Wow
 

Tidal

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I once briefly dated middle-aged Janet and was the perfect gentleman at all times, but we split because she said I wasn't "assertive" enough, whatever that meant.
Some years later I briefly dated middle-aged June and was a perfect gentleman again, but she said she preferred the strong Sean Connery type, so we split.
With hindsight I think I was being TOO gentlemanly and they misinterpreted it as "wimpy", and of course no woman wants a wimp..:)
 

AlcyoneSong

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What are your reasons as a woman? I'm genuinely curious.
1) Feminism today is not what it was in the beginning. 2)My rights as a human do not justify the murder of another human just because that human is in the early developmental stage of life and given the environment and conditions it will develop and grow into a human who will be able to live independent of me, I cannot in good conscious condone the termination of a humans life as a "personal right" when I am removing that human's "right to life" in the process. 3) There are systems and ideologies that must change, but blaming the male gender is just as sexist as the "evil patriarchy", shall we call it replacing it with an oligarchy?

It is sexist, it is not kind, it is not who we are as civilized people.

When we can see each other, as humans, respect each other and respect the lives of our most vulnerable by giving them the best life. When we are less selfish, less greedy, less self-absorbed, less proud, arrogant, cruel.. I will be happy to use the word "feminist" in my vocabulary again. Until then, I will not call myself a feminist.
 

AlcyoneSong

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And yes.. I do. That would be one solution. A child allowance Plus work credits for SS during years you stay home to care for children or elderly or sick family members... or more family friendly policies that encourage and allow women to stay home when they want to that I haven’t thought of. Just because you haven’t encountered this idea or argument from feminists you know doesn’t mean it isn’t something that’s been floating around various feminist circles for years. It has. It just never gets anywhere and it should.
YES YES YES! ^^^^THIS! but yes like you said before, it's not spoken as loudly among this generation of feminists... there is an issue of equality and yes if we could protect both women AND men from employers using families as an excuse to dismiss people unfairly I am all for this....
 

AlcyoneSong

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I once briefly dated middle-aged Janet and was the perfect gentleman at all times, but we split because she said I wasn't "assertive" enough, whatever that meant.
Some years later I briefly dated middle-aged June and was a perfect gentleman again, but she said she preferred the strong Sean Connery type, so we split.
With hindsight I think I was being TOO gentlemanly and they misinterpreted it as "wimpy", and of course no woman wants a wimp..:)
No we want a man with a Aston Martin DB9 ;)
 
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