why Christians reject Roman Catholic church

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It's frightening how lost some people can get within their imagination and made up religions. Ancient Christians had no need to read for themselves because scripture was only a part of the outward Liturgy, the religious service designed to illuminate the mind of Christ.

I heard this great piece yesterday how the doctrine of sola scriptura (the Word alone) was heavily influenced by Kabbala and the Talmud, which by the 16th century were well translated with "Hebrew" scholars in most of Europe's large universities.

From a Catholic European perspective the reformation was a purposeful attack on traditional values and the unity of the Church. It's strange to read of the Protestants who were so willing to collaborate with the "modernist" enemies of Christianity. By dishonoring their classical heritage the Reformation was a revolution to all facets of life and society. The role of the individual, governments, economies were all upended by Europe's free-fall from the Church. Not placing judgement as the tides of history seem to be inevitable but it's bizarre how people who clam an ancient faith could be so accomodating to the liberal values that led to debt-based capitalism, colonialism, pretend democracies, etc. Really all the degenerate aspects of modernity we're struggling with today can be traced to the Protestant revolution.


“Born at Bretten in Baden, Melanchthon was a great-nephew of the Hebraist and Christian kabbalist Johann *Reuchlin, who taught him Hebrew and supervised his education at Pforzheim.



Widely respected as a humanist and theologian, he favored study of the Kabbalah, but condemned its later accretions. One of his addresses on the importance of Hebrew, De studio linguae Ebraeae, appeared in 1549.”
 
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DavidSon

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“Born at Bretten in Baden, Melanchthon was a great-nephew of the Hebraist and Christian kabbalist Johann *Reuchlin, who taught him Hebrew and supervised his education at Pforzheim.



Widely respected as a humanist and theologian, he favored study of the Kabbalah, but condemned its later accretions. One of his addresses on the importance of Hebrew, De studio linguae Ebraeae, appeared in 1549.”
I think it deserves its own thread but here's the presentation by Dr. Matthew Johnson. He comments on how during the Reformation period Reuchlin, Zwingli, and (probably Marrano) Servetus were among a new movement of "Christians" who chose the authority of Talmudists and Kabbalists over that of the Church Fathers.

From a Christian Nationalist perspective the Reformation was the worst disaster ever imposed on European man. It was a revolution of economy, society, family, and religious life in every facet. It was a totally kabbalistic inversion of previous understanding that spawned nominalism, exploitation, usury, capitalism, secularism, Zionism, Marxism, sexual liberation... every political revolution. The last 500 years of the West are basically a humiliating, slow decline into subversion away from the Church. As Johnson and Michael Jones state Judaism itself is a political ideology, messianic and revolutionary; an anti-Christ vision of the subjugation of their eternal enemies Esau, Amalek, and Rome.

From this view history makes a lot more sense realizing Russia's rich Orthodox tradition, that Russia was once called the 3rd Rome. Rabbis of the Reformation period were prophesying that Luther was a new Cyrus, leading the destruction of Rome and ushering in the messianic era where Earth's goyim would serve as noahydes. They weren't far off. Being raised as a European Christian it's wild to realize how long these ideological conflicts have gone on. The Church had always taken a vigilant stance against heretical influence, banning Freemasonry and publicly burning the Talmud. It might be a stretch but one wonders if we're only living in the shadow of these age-old struggles.

 

QMQS

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I am gonna say that with the death of the last disciples and those who knew Jesus and his teachings from personal experience or at least knew these disciples, who knew jesus, the church and all denominations coming out of that, were corrupted. Even before that, Paul tells us, how much the early church had its problems with heresy. John's gospel was written to show that John the Baptist was not the Messiah and that Jesus was fully humand and fully God.

So even back then the church was alread under full blown attack of ideas of gnosticism and other satanic corruptions of the Way.

Which is why I believe that FOR ME only biblical christianity is the way forward. We don't need to argue which denomination is "less worse". They are all bad (which doesn't mean that all people in there are bad, but misled).
 

Wigi

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So even back then the church was alread under full blown attack of ideas of gnosticism and other satanic corruptions of the Way.
Indeed and in fact even when Jesus was here on earth, some of His disciples departed because they wouldn't want to accept His message entirely.

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
John 6:63‭-‬68

Every generation of Christians faces this dilemma as to whether they will choose to stay in Jesus' presence saying only He have the words of eternal life or if they will go after their own delusions and imaginings, following the teachings and commandments of men.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I am gonna say that with the death of the last disciples and those who knew Jesus and his teachings from personal experience or at least knew these disciples, who knew jesus, the church and all denominations coming out of that, were corrupted. Even before that, Paul tells us, how much the early church had its problems with heresy. John's gospel was written to show that John the Baptist was not the Messiah and that Jesus was fully humand and fully God.

So even back then the church was alread under full blown attack of ideas of gnosticism and other satanic corruptions of the Way.

Which is why I believe that FOR ME only biblical christianity is the way forward. We don't need to argue which denomination is "less worse". They are all bad (which doesn't mean that all people in there are bad, but misled).
Sometimes unbelief can sound cleverer than it really is!

 

Maldarker

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Hidden sun symbols in St Peters Bascillica and Pope in golden sun rise throne


Sun symbol on chest


Gigantic statues at the vatican

Gigantic statues of Zeus and Egyptian gods




Jesus was born in a stable! Who are these "kings" on gold thrones?


Catholic Three horned Jesus


Silhouette does not invoke thoughts of Jesus...

If you can't figure it out with the visual cluses then idk what to tell you. Very suspect.
 

Sibi

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Santuario de Jesús Nazareno - Tepalcingo MX

Catholic Church with crowned double eagle (freemason)


Crescent moon - stars - 8 spoked wheel - sun with face





Inside - 8 point star, sun shining through chapel, horned Jesus with cross, idols in shrines



Cuernavaca, Mexico - cross is outside a church with Jesus/green man face and looks like an idol with eyes, mouth, and a crown.
 

Wigi

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I think it deserves its own thread but here's the presentation by Dr. Matthew Johnson. He comments on how during the Reformation period Reuchlin, Zwingli, and (probably Marrano) Servetus were among a new movement of "Christians" who chose the authority of Talmudists and Kabbalists over that of the Church Fathers.

From a Christian Nationalist perspective the Reformation was the worst disaster ever imposed on European man. It was a revolution of economy, society, family, and religious life in every facet. It was a totally kabbalistic inversion of previous understanding that spawned nominalism, exploitation, usury, capitalism, secularism, Zionism, Marxism, sexual liberation... every political revolution. The last 500 years of the West are basically a humiliating, slow decline into subversion away from the Church. As Johnson and Michael Jones state Judaism itself is a political ideology, messianic and revolutionary; an anti-Christ vision of the subjugation of their eternal enemies Esau, Amalek, and Rome.

From this view history makes a lot more sense realizing Russia's rich Orthodox tradition, that Russia was once called the 3rd Rome. Rabbis of the Reformation period were prophesying that Luther was a new Cyrus, leading the destruction of Rome and ushering in the messianic era where Earth's goyim would serve as noahydes. They weren't far off. Being raised as a European Christian it's wild to realize how long these ideological conflicts have gone on. The Church had always taken a vigilant stance against heretical influence, banning Freemasonry and publicly burning the Talmud. It might be a stretch but one wonders if we're only living in the shadow of these age-old struggles.

There is something important to note that few Christians accurately formulate these days. The reason why you see so many statues, icons and chimeras in Cathedrals it's because Catholics have in fact deleted the 2nd commandment stating the following:

"You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth"
Exodus 20:4

I encourage you to try and look up on google or find any Catholic literature listing the 10 commandments, you'll notice the 2nd commandment about carved images has been deleted.

I propose that you read the origins of Iconoclasm in medieval Europe and how hard Catholics and Orthodox suppressed the movement to make sure that the carving of statues and the veneration of icons, both a violation of the 2nd commandment, would be perpetuated.

"In the early church, the making and veneration of portraits of Christ and the saints were consistently opposed. The use of icons nevertheless steadily gained in popularity, especially in the eastern provinces of the Roman Empire. Toward the end of the 6th century and in the 7th, icons became the object of an officially encouraged cult, often implying a superstitious belief in their animation."

The iconoclasts’ argument in their war against icons was that it was forbidden to bow down to “anything made by human hands”.


"In Rome, Pope Gregory III, declared iconoclasm heretical in 730, but it took the Second Council of Nicaea, in 787, to agree that icons were legitimate once again in Byzantium."
Ask yourself one thing:
How is it that this institution is so afraid of the truth it has to delete God's law and hide scriptures from modest people like you and I ? Protestantism as a whole is nothing short of a successful Iconoclastic movement re-establishing the 2nd Commandment.

Christian nationalists, especially those in Europe, don't understand that we live in a world governed by spiritual laws (i.e. reaping what you sow is among them) and there is a spiritual law cursing those holding onto carved images in worship.

Cursed is the one who makes a carved or molded image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’ “And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen!’
Deuteronomy 27:15

Catholics of Europe refused the Reformation which was God's call and warning for the removal of statues and idols in Churches and Cathedrals. Their stubborn attitude resulted in religious wars between Catholic and Protestant Nations. France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Ireland despite all we've been through Catholics still refused to put two and two together.

So God judged Catholic Europe by allowing the collapse of its power through revolutions, democracy, world wars and secularism which is Secular Iconoclasm.

Catholics still don't understand this is not solely about politics, the coming of Muslim immigrants bringing this Islamic Iconoclasm to Europe or even Wokism in the church is the direct spiritual consequence of the violation of the 2nd Commandment by the Catholic Church.
The Catholic institution, just like Pharaoh during the 10 plagues in Exodus, is cursed and the European nations partaking in those practices brought upon themselves dire consequences.
 

A Freeman

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Something else that should deeply trouble anyone attempting to defend Roman Catholicism is the fabricated excuse behind the abominable inverted cross that allegedly represents "Saint" Peter:-

1674050872036.png

Simon Peter did NOT die on any inverted cross; he died of OLD AGE in Jerusalem, not able to dress himself or get around without help, exactly as Christ prophesied.

John 21:18-19
21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst where thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry [thee] where thou wouldest not.
21:19 This spoke he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow ME.

The inverted cross is an overt and obvious satanic symbol that has absolutely nothing to do with Peter or with Peter's Master/Techer: Christ, and should send the crystal clear message that the made-up traditions and doctrines of Roman Catholicism have taken Christ's True Teachings and turned them upside-down.

It is very difficult to understand how anyone can believe, much less promote such obvious lies.
 
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I think it deserves its own thread but here's the presentation by Dr. Matthew Johnson. He comments on how during the Reformation period Reuchlin, Zwingli, and (probably Marrano) Servetus were among a new movement of "Christians" who chose the authority of Talmudists and Kabbalists over that of the Church Fathers.

From a Christian Nationalist perspective the Reformation was the worst disaster ever imposed on European man. It was a revolution of economy, society, family, and religious life in every facet. It was a totally kabbalistic inversion of previous understanding that spawned nominalism, exploitation, usury, capitalism, secularism, Zionism, Marxism, sexual liberation... every political revolution. The last 500 years of the West are basically a humiliating, slow decline into subversion away from the Church. As Johnson and Michael Jones state Judaism itself is a political ideology, messianic and revolutionary; an anti-Christ vision of the subjugation of their eternal enemies Esau, Amalek, and Rome.

From this view history makes a lot more sense realizing Russia's rich Orthodox tradition, that Russia was once called the 3rd Rome. Rabbis of the Reformation period were prophesying that Luther was a new Cyrus, leading the destruction of Rome and ushering in the messianic era where Earth's goyim would serve as noahydes. They weren't far off. Being raised as a European Christian it's wild to realize how long these ideological conflicts have gone on. The Church had always taken a vigilant stance against heretical influence, banning Freemasonry and publicly burning the Talmud. It might be a stretch but one wonders if we're only living in the shadow of these age-old struggles.

Had no idea there was anyone else on this planet talking about Philipp Melenchthon and Reuchlin. I've already added it to my Watch Later list, will probably watch it tonight.

I'm obviously in agreement with your summary of Protestant influence on the West. Even their motif to protest, ie. the indulgences, was just a half-baked excuse to rob the Church of its wealth. They've ever sided with the privatizers, physiocrats, capitalists, Masons and Jews ever since to show for it, which basically explains the nature of the United States. I wouldn't call your speculation a stretch. For me the 20th century has put the old institutions, the RCC specifically, on its knees before the new order, whose powergrab is best illustrated by Vatican II and proven by the spiritual state of the first Jesuit Pope.

But did you reference E. Michael Jones? Or Michael Jones (InspiringPhilosophy)? Unless there's a third namesake I'm unaware of, it's probably the former, who rightfully calls "the Jew" a perpetual rebel against Christ or the Logos, which explains their presence in pretty much every "revolution", whether political, cultural or social, that singles out Christian tradition as its greatest adversary.
 
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There is something important to note that few Christians accurately formulate these days. The reason why you see so many statues, icons and chimeras in Cathedrals it's because Catholics have in fact deleted the 2nd commandment stating the following:

"You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth"
Exodus 20:4

I encourage you to try and look up on google or find any Catholic literature listing the 10 commandments, you'll notice the 2nd commandment about carved images has been deleted.

I propose that you read the origins of Iconoclasm in medieval Europe and how hard Catholics and Orthodox suppressed the movement to make sure that the carving of statues and the veneration of icons, both a violation of the 2nd commandment, would be perpetuated.








Ask yourself one thing:
How is it that this institution is so afraid of the truth it has to delete God's law and hide scriptures from modest people like you and I ? Protestantism as a whole is nothing short of a successful Iconoclastic movement re-establishing the 2nd Commandment.

Christian nationalists, especially those in Europe, don't understand that we live in a world governed by spiritual laws (i.e. reaping what you sow is among them) and there is a spiritual law cursing those holding onto carved images in worship.

Cursed is the one who makes a carved or molded image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’ “And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen!’
Deuteronomy 27:15

Catholics of Europe refused the Reformation which was God's call and warning for the removal of statues and idols in Churches and Cathedrals. Their stubborn attitude resulted in religious wars between Catholic and Protestant Nations. France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Ireland despite all we've been through Catholics still refused to put two and two together.

So God judged Catholic Europe by allowing the collapse of its power through revolutions, democracy, world wars and secularism which is Secular Iconoclasm.

Catholics still don't understand this is not solely about politics, the coming of Muslim immigrants bringing this Islamic Iconoclasm to Europe or even Wokism in the church is the direct spiritual consequence of the violation of the 2nd Commandment by the Catholic Church.
The Catholic institution, just like Pharaoh during the 10 plagues in Exodus, is cursed and the European nations partaking in those practices brought upon themselves dire consequences.
You have the idol and you have what the idol represents. One can worship the idol, ie. the physical object itself (which would be called a sin according to the New Testament) and one can worship that which the idol represents. Explain why the latter is sinful without using the Bible.
 
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Something else that should deeply trouble anyone attempting to defend Roman Catholicism is the fabricated excuse behind the abominable inverted cross that allegedly represents "Saint" Peter:-

View attachment 83821

Simon Peter did NOT die on any inverted cross; he died of OLD AGE in Jerusalem, not able to dress himself or get around without help, exactly as Christ prophesied.

John 21:18-19
21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst where thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry [thee] where thou wouldest not.
21:19 This spoke he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow ME.

The inverted cross is an overt and obvious satanic symbol that has absolutely nothing to do with Peter or with Peter's Master/Techer: Christ, and should send the crystal clear message that the made-up traditions and doctrines of Roman Catholicism have taken Christ's True Teachings and turned them upside-down.

It is very difficult to understand how anyone can believe, much less promote such obvious lies.
Historical and scriptural sources presented to @A Freeman in 2019 that Peter went to Rome and was crucified upside down in Rome:


If Peter was as important as the Roman Catholic church claims, then why isn't there a Gospel according to Peter?
There is:

Gospel of Peter

The Acts of Peter

How could Peter have been the first pope of Gentile Rome, as the Roman Catholic church falsely claims, if Peter was never in Gentile Rome?
Acts of Peter
Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed.


Does the Roman Catholic church really think that their followers are either so stupid or gullible that they would actually believe Peter would disobey a direct COMMAND from Christ to ONLY go to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel'? How ridiculous!

Matthew 10:5-6
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel".

Doesn't the Roman Catholic church falsely claim that Peter was allegedly martyred on a satanic inverted cross?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Saint_Peter

Isn't that supposedly why such an overtly satanic symbol is carved into their papal "throne"?

View attachment 29455
Acts of Peter
But now it is time for thee, Peter, to deliver up thy body unto them that take it. Receive it then, ye unto whom it belongeth. I beseech you the executioners, crucify me thus, with the head downward and not otherwise: and the reason wherefore, I will tell unto them that hear.

And when they had hanged him up after the manner he desired, he began again to say: Ye men unto whom it belongeth to hear, hearken to that which I shall declare unto you at this especial time as I hang here. Learn ye the mystery of all nature, and the beginning of all things, what it was. For the first man, whose race I bear in mine appearance (or, of the race of whom I bear the likeness), fell (was borne) head downwards, and showed forth a manner of birth such as was not heretofore: for it was dead, having no motion.


Apocalypse of Peter
"Peter, blessed are those above belonging to the Father, who revealed life to those who are from the life, through me, since I reminded they who are built on what is strong, that they may hear my word, and distinguish words of unrighteousness and transgression of law from righteousness, as being from the height of every word of this Pleroma of truth, having been enlightened in good pleasure by him whom the principalities sought. But they did not find him, nor was he mentioned among any generation of the prophets. He has now appeared among these, in him who appeared, who is the Son of Man, who is exalted above the heavens in a fear of men of like essence. But you yourself, Peter, become perfect in accordance with your name with myself, the one who chose you, because from you I have established a base for the remnant whom I have summoned to knowledge. Therefore be strong until the imitation of righteousness - of him who had summoned you, having summoned you to know him in a way which is worth doing because of the rejection which happened to him, and the sinews of his hands and his feet, and the crowning by those of the middle region, and the body of his radiance which they bring in hope of service because of a reward of honor - as he was about to reprove you three times in this night."



Because it is an overt fabrication filled with lies that is not found in any canonical text for that very reason. How do we know with absolute certainty it is a FAKE (that was written after Peter's death)?

BECAUSE IT CONTRADICTS CHRIST, WHICH IS ANTICHRIST/CALLING HIM A LIAR.
There's no contradiction. Your conclusion is drawn from non-sequiturs. Look:

It's the Scriptures that tell us Peter was never in Rome because Christ COMMANDED Peter not to go to Rome (Matt. 10:6).
Your scriptural reference:

Matt 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.

This is in the context of the Little Commission where Jesus instructed His disciples to aid in the conversion the lost sheep (Israel). This does not include the Great Commission of the risen Jesus and the dispersion of the Apostles to go and baptize unto all nations:

Matt 28
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Peter obeyed Jesus Christ and went to the Gentile nations, which is testified in the First Epistle of Peter:

1 Peter 1
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Again, it's the Scriptures that tell us Peter was NOT crucified upside down. In fact it was Christ Himself Who prophesied How Peter would die of old age (John 21:17-19). Are you really choosing to believe your FAKE ANTICHRIST MANUSCRIPT over Christ? That's your choice of course, but don't expect anyone else to believe such obvious lies.
Your scriptural reference:

John 21
17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?”
And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.”
Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep. 18 Most assuredly, I say to you, when you were younger, you girded yourself and walked where you wished; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish.” 19 This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, “Follow Me.”

The above verses do not say Peter would die of old age, it says he would die in old age. Again, you've made a non-sequitur fallacy, which is weird, since you're the logics expert and all.

Not only does it not say what you said it says, it has symbolic language possibly alluding to Peter's destiny being crucified (stretched out hands, girded (= binded) by another (to a cross?), carried where he doesn't wish to go (place of execution?)). It is typical Christian scripture that is subject to different levels of (non-contradictory!) interpretations. The literal or somatic sense of scripture, that which speaks to the body. The more profound deeper or psychic sense of scripture conveying earthly wisdom, which speaks to the soul. And thirdly, the spiritual or pneumatic interpretation, for those capable of hearing / understanding higher wisdoms, the mysteries of God.

Each one, then, ought to describe in his own mind, in a threefold manner, the understanding of the divine letters — that is, in order that all the more simple individuals may be edified, so to speak, by the very body of Scripture; for such we term that common and historical sense: while, if some have commenced to make considerable progress, and are able to see something more (than that), they may be edified by the very soul of Scripture. Those, again, who are perfect, and who resemble those of whom the apostle says, We speak wisdom among them that are perfect, but not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, who will be brought to nought; but we speak the wisdom of God, hidden in a mystery, which God has decreed before the ages unto our glory; — all such as these may be edified by the spiritual law itself (which has a shadow of good things to come), as if by the Spirit. - Origen, De Principiis, Book IV, 1:11.


With regards to Peter's death, the following is by no means conclusive proof, but it sure contrasts your perverted opinion of the Acts of Peter with the possible truth contained within.

+/- 200 AD:

How happy is its church, on which apostles poured forth all their doctrine along with their blood! Where Peter endures a passion like his Lord's! - Tertullian, Prescription Against Heretics, 36.

At Rome Nero was the first who stained with blood the rising faith. Then is Peter girt by another, when he is made fast to the cross. - Tertullian, Scorpiace, 15.

Peter appears to have preached in Pontus, Galatia, Bithynia, Cappadocia, and Asia to the Jews of the dispersion. And at last, having come to Rome, he was crucified head-downwards; for he had requested that he might suffer in this way. - Eusebius, Church History, Book III, 1.


Written in 1st century AD:
First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians (5)
1 But let us pass from ancient examples, and come unto those who have in the times nearest to us, wrestled for the faith.
2 Let us take the noble examples of our own generation. Through jealousy and envy the greatest and most just pillars of the Church were persecuted, and came even unto death.
3 Let us place before our eyes the good Apostles.
4 Peter, through unjust envy, endured not one or two but many labours, and at last, having delivered his testimony, departed unto the place of glory due to him.



Ignatius of Antioch's Epistle to the Romans, 4
I do not, as Peter and Paul, issue commandments unto you.


Ireneaus, Against Heresies, Book III, Chapter 1
Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church.


Eusebius, Church History, Book II, 14
But this did not last long. For immediately, during the reign of Claudius, the all-good and gracious Providence, which watches over all things, led Peter, that strongest and greatest of the apostles, and the one who on account of his virtue was the speaker for all the others, to Rome against this great corrupter of life. Clad in divine armor like a noble commander of God, He carried the costly merchandise of the light of the understanding from the East to those who dwelt in the West, proclaiming the light itself, and the word which brings salvation to souls, and preaching the kingdom of heaven.


Eusebius, Church History, Book VI, 14
5. Again, in the same books, Clement gives the tradition of the earliest presbyters, as to the order of the Gospels, in the following manner:

6. The Gospels containing the genealogies, he says, were written first. The Gospel according to Mark had this occasion. As Peter had preached the Word publicly at Rome, and declared the Gospel by the Spirit, many who were present requested that Mark, who had followed him for a long time and remembered his sayings, should write them out. And having composed the Gospel he gave it to those who had requested it.


The Apostolic Fathers With Justin Martyr and Ireneaus
2. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops.



Fathers of the Third and Fourth Centuries
His apostles were at that time eleven in number, to whom were added Matthias, in the room of the traitor Judas, and afterwards Paul. Then were they dispersed throughout all the earth to preach the Gospel, as the Lord their Master had commanded them; and during twenty-five years, and until the beginning of the reign of the Emperor Nero, they occupied themselves in laying the foundations of the Church in every province and city. And while Nero reigned, the Apostle Peter came to Rome, and, through the power of God committed unto him, wrought certain miracles, and, by turning many to the true religion, built up a faithful and stedfast temple 302unto the Lord. When Nero heard of those things, and observed that not only in Rome, but in every other place, a great multitude revolted daily from the worship of idols, and, condemning their old ways, went over to the new religion, he, an execrable and pernicious tyrant, sprung forward to raze the heavenly temple and destroy the true faith. He it was who first persecuted the servants of God; he crucified Peter, and slew Paul:


St. Jerome, On Illustrious Men, Chapter 1
Simon Peter the son of John, from the village of Bethsaida in the province of Galilee, brother of Andrew the apostle, and himself chief of the apostles, after having been bishop of the church of Antioch and having preached to the Dispersion — the believers in circumcision, in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia — pushed on to Rome in the second year of Claudius to overthrow Simon Magus, and held the sacerdotal chair there for twenty-five years until the last, that is the fourteenth, year of Nero. At his hands he received the crown of martyrdom being nailed to the cross with his head towards the ground and his feet raised on high, asserting that he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord.
 

Sibi

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Aug 11, 2021
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Pagan Niches for Idol Worship
Lar: household gods or spirits
"The Lararium (pl. lararia) altar is the sacred place of the home where offerings and prayers are made to the Gods. In more affluent Roman homes, such as private villas, the main Lararium altar was usually set in the Atrium (front reception room, near the front door). In smaller Roman homes which might not have an atrium, such as insula apartments, the Lararium was most often located near the hearth (the kitchen or place of a central fire). But a house could have several minor Lararia as well, indoors (specially in the bedrooms) or outdoors."





Catholic shrine. The shape is a roman / greek temple with a triangular top and columns.


Shrine with flower offerings



Temple de Santo Domingo, Oaxaca MX
 

DavidSon

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Jan 10, 2019
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I propose that you read the origins of Iconoclasm in medieval Europe and how hard Catholics and Orthodox suppressed the movement to make sure that the carving of statues and the veneration of icons, both a violation of the 2nd commandment, would be perpetuated.
I propose you do the same. Your statement surrounding the 2nd commandment is really embarrassing and low-level compared to the philosophic debates that were answered by the Church over a 1000 years ago. What was the Ark, the Staff of Moses, the decorations of Solomon's Temple? In the Revelation we read of images of the Lamb, multiple other images which are but logi/emanations of the Logos. You protestants actually deify the "Holy Bible" within sola scriptura(scripture alone lol), which again is nothing but a created symbol of God.

So God judged Catholic Europe by allowing the collapse of its power through revolutions, democracy, world wars and secularism which is Secular Iconoclasm.
This is an interesting concept. Collapse is a strong word; from my limited investigations I'd say it's more that the Catholic (Universal)/Orthodox Church has has had to sit back a bit, witnessing the proliferation of sin and decline of Western society the past, oh 800 years or so. In no way have they collapsed, in fact they've continued to flourish. Not sure if you're aware but your wording and the link you posted are an exact explanation of the attack on anciency and the original faith of the Chuch, including the veneration of images:

A.V. Kartashev in his History of the Ecumenical Councils writes of the “iconoclasts’ sanctimonious and false arguments”, which call for the “discarding of all knowledge and art, given [to man] for God’s glorification”. Iconoclasts rejected “in principle also all human knowledge, theology, and every thought and word as instruments of expressing dogma. This was not only hypocritical and sham barbarism, but also simple dualism that rejected the sanctity of anything material. The Seventh Ecumenical Council rose up in Orthodox manner against these hidden heresies of monophysitism and dualism, and defended along with art, “all knowledge and artisanship as God’s gift for the sake of glorifying Him”. The iconoclasts’ “enlightened” liberalism itself is shown to be obscurantism, and the theology of the Seventh Council is shown to be a blessing on science and culture that is most profound and indisputable.”

In 754 an iconoclastic council was held, which condemned the veneration of icons. This council also anathematized Patriarch Germanos of Constantinople and St. John Damascene, who were stalwart defenders of the veneration of icons. Although the council claimed to have the status of Ecumenical, its resolutions were later rejected by the Church.

The Seventh Ecumenical Council that took place in 787 confirmed the dogma of the veneration of icons. And in 848 there was another Church council that confirmed all the definitions outlined in the Seventh Ecumenical Council, and established the rite of proclaiming the eternal memory of the zealots of Orthodoxy and the anathematization of heretics. This rite is pronounced to this day in our Church on the Sunday of the Triumph of Orthodoxy (the first Sunday of Great Lent).


The Triumph of Orthodoxy! Maybe you'll listen to the lecture from Dr. Johnson I posted or this presentation from Jay Dyer. In the future please bring something intelligent, challenging, and refreshing to discuss. Personally I've become far more interested in the thoughts of Augustine, St. Basil, John of Damascus, etc. as a definition of Christianity than the rabid, deluded cultists at this website. A tree is known by its fruits:

 

e-Enoch

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Sep 21, 2021
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13,218
The Asbury Revival And The ‘Jesus Revolution’ All Come From Something Called Roman Catholic Charismatic Renewal

 

e-Enoch

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Sep 21, 2021
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13,218
SEX PARTIES, DRUGS AND GAY ESCORTS AT THE POPE'S RESIDENCE: UNDERCOVER IN THE VATICAN

 
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