Huge young galaxies seen by JWST may upend our models of the universe

Red Sky at Morning

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Huge young galaxies seen by JWST may upend our models of the universe

Galaxies spotted by the James Webb Space Telescope seem far too massive to have formed so early on in the universe’s history, which could be a problem for our ideas of galaxy formation


 

Red Sky at Morning

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Despite upsetting the “Standard Model” of physics, the observations of the JWST are entirely in keeping with an alternate explanation.

 

FilthPig

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Big Bang model is nonsense ,i dont know if they maintain it because they are stupid or it's some kind of conspiracy .Probably the second option because looking for stuff that doesnt exist(like black holes,dark energy,dark mass etc ) brings billions to some people. All galaxys didnt come into existence at the same time.Galaxys are still being created all around us .
Astrophysical jets create galaxys .Halton Arp already decades ago was telling about it and he got banned from all USA observatories for saying stuff like that. I figured out years ago how the cycles of the galaxys work . I dropped some of my findings on other forum,seemed more suitable place for that kind of information .
 
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How many times can our models of the universe be upended? It seems we are being upended every week now. When will astronomers leave us alone ?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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How many times can our models of the universe be upended? It seems we are being upended every week now. When will astronomers leave us alone ?
It would appear from studies of plasma and electromagnetism that the most scientific model of the universe is represented in Genesis 1:

The Beginning
(John 1:1-5)

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

Almost exclusively, explanation of the age of the universe have focussed on what could be expected from gravitational effects, yet plasma and electrical effects are observed throughout the universe, and mini galaxies have even been created in the lab in around 0.25 seconds (!) through these means.

D77286B4-66EF-4A66-A334-8B2AB715C6E9.jpeg

I am also intrigued by the fact that those researching into plasma cosmology come in tow flavours - one acknowledges a creator and the other postulates a universe that has always been…

 
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Red Sky at Morning

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An Open Letter to the Scientific Community

In 2004, New Scientist, published an open letter from Eric Lerner and about 30 other scientists,[1] criticizing the Big Bang theory, and noting that there are other theories to consider. The text of the letter is reproduced in full below. It originally appeared at cosmologystatement.org (copy).

Full text

An Open Letter to the Scientific Community was published under the title:

Bucking the big bang

Published in New Scientist, May 22, 2004
The big bang today relies on a growing number of hypothetical entities, things that we have never observed– inflation, dark matter and dark energy are the most prominent examples. Without them, there would be a fatal contradiction between the observations made by astronomers and the predictions of the big bang theory. In no other field of physics would this continual recourse to new hypothetical objects be accepted as a way of bridging the gap between theory and observation. It would, at the least, raise serious questions about the validity of the underlying theory.

But the big bang theory can’t survive without these fudge factors. Without the hypothetical inflation field, the big bang does not predict the smooth, isotropic cosmic background radiation that is observed, because there would be no way for parts of the universe that are now more than a few degrees away in the sky to come to the same temperature and thus emit the same amount of microwave radiation.

Without some kind of dark matter, unlike any that we have observed on Earth despite 20 years of experiments, big-bang theory makes contradictory predictions for the density of matter in the universe. Inflation requires a density 20 times larger than that implied by big bang nucleosynthesis, the theory’s explanation of the origin of the light elements. And without dark energy, the theory predicts that the universe is only about 8 billion years old, which is billions of years younger than the age of many stars in our galaxy.

What is more, the big bang theory can boast of no quantitative predictions that have subsequently been validated by observation. The successes claimed by the theory’s supporters consist of its ability to retrospectively fit observations with a steadily increasing array of adjustable parameters, just as the old Earth-centered cosmology of Ptolemy needed layer upon layer of epicycles.

Yet the big bang is not the only framework available for understanding the history of the universe.

Plasma cosmology and the steady-state model both hypothesize an evolving universe without beginning or end. These and other alternative approaches can also explain the basic phenomena of the cosmos, including the abundances of light elements, the generation of large-scale structure, the cosmic background radiation, and how the redshift of far-away galaxies increases with distance. They have even predicted new phenomena that were subsequently observed, something the big bang has failed to do.

Supporters of the big bang theory may retort that these theories do not explain every cosmological observation. But that is scarcely surprising, as their development has been severely hampered by a complete lack of funding. Indeed, such questions and alternatives cannot even now be freely discussed and examined. An open exchange of ideas is lacking in most mainstream conferences. Whereas Richard Feynman could say that “science is the culture of doubt”, in cosmology today doubt and dissent are not tolerated, and young scientists learn to remain silent if they have something negative to say about the standard big bang model. Those who doubt the big bang fear that saying so will cost them their funding.

Even observations are now interpreted through this biased filter, judged right or wrong depending on whether or not they support the big bang. So discordant data on red shifts, lithium and helium abundances, and galaxy distribution, among other topics, are ignored or ridiculed. This reflects a growing dogmatic mindset that is alien to the spirit of free scientific inquiry.

Today, virtually all financial and experimental resources in cosmology are devoted to big bang studies. Funding comes from only a few sources, and all the peer-review committees that control them are dominated by supporters of the big bang. As a result, the dominance of the big bang within the field has become self-sustaining, irrespective of the scientific validity of the theory.

Giving support only to projects within the big bang framework undermines a fundamental element of the scientific method — the constant testing of theory against observation. Such a restriction makes unbiased discussion and research impossible. To redress this, we urge those agencies that fund work in cosmology to set aside a significant fraction of their funding for investigations into alternative theories and observational contradictions of the big bang. To avoid bias, the peer review committee that allocates such funds could be composed of astronomers and physicists from outside the field of cosmology.
Allocating funding to investigations into the big bang’s validity, and its alternatives, would allow the scientific process to determine our most accurate model of the history of the universe.

Signed:

(Institutions for identification only)

Halton Arp, Max-Planck-Institute Fur Astrophysik (Germany)

Andre Koch Torres Assis, State University of Campinas (Brazil)

Yuri Baryshev, Astronomical Institute, St. Petersburg State University (Russia)

Ari Brynjolfsson, Applied Radiation Industries (USA)

Hermann Bondi, Churchill College, University of Cambridge (UK)

Timothy Eastman, Plasmas International (USA)

Chuck Gallo, Superconix, Inc.(USA)

Thomas Gold, Cornell University (emeritus) (USA)

Amitabha Ghosh, Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur (India)

Walter J. Heikkila, University of Texas at Dallas (USA)

Michael Ibison, Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin (USA)

Thomas Jarboe, University of Washington (USA)

Jerry W. Jensen, ATK Propulsion (USA)

Menas Kafatos, George Mason University (USA)

Eric J. Lerner, Lawrenceville Plasma Physics (USA)

Paul Marmet, Herzberg Institute of Astrophysics (retired) (Canada)

Paola Marziani, Istituto Nazionale di Astrofisica, Osservatorio Astronomico di Padova (Italy)

Gregory Meholic, The Aerospace Corporation (USA)

Jacques Moret-Bailly, Université Dijon (retired) (France)

Jayant Narlikar, IUCAA(emeritus) and College de France (India, France)

Marcos Cesar Danhoni Neves, State University of Maringá (Brazil)

Charles D. Orth, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (USA)

R. David Pace, Lyon College (USA)

Georges Paturel, Observatoire de Lyon (France)

Jean-Claude Pecker, College de France (France)

Anthony L. Peratt, Los Alamos National Laboratory (USA)

Bill Peter, BAE Systems Advanced Technologies (USA)

David Roscoe, Sheffield University (UK)

Malabika Roy, George Mason University (USA)

Sisir Roy, George Mason University (USA)

Konrad Rudnicki, Jagiellonian University (Poland)

Domingos S.L. Soares, Federal University of Minas Gerais (Brazil)

John L. West, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology (USA)

James F. Woodward, California State University, Fullerton (USA)
 

FilthPig

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one acknowledges a creator and the other postulates a universe that has always been…
I see it as an cyclical universe that keeps destroying itself just to create a new one . All creation happens within certain laws,mainly order and balance, but it is never the same.There is room for chaos and evolution but what drifts too far from balance and order wont last long .
And so by this repetitive yet always different cycles of creation the god evolves through experience,which is the experience of all creation.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Here’s an interesting one -


This 3-Billion Light-Year Long Galaxy Chain Could 'Overturn Cosmology'
'This is a very big deal.'


Galaxies and stars in the night sky.ArtEvent ET / iStock

For a long time, scientists have thought the distribution of matter was evenly spread throughout the observable universe. It's the bedrock of cosmology. Or so we thought.

Researchers discovered a colossal arc of galaxies that spans an unconscionably vast distance of more than 3 billion light-years in a distant corner of the universe, according to a virtual briefing of the American Astronomical Society on June 7.

 
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Red Sky at Morning

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The James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) has looked back in time to find the very first filaments of the cosmic web, which is a network of huge interconnected filaments of galaxies separated by vast voids.

A team of astronomers led by the University of Arizona have discovered a "thread-like arrangement" of 10 galaxies about 830 million years after the Big Bang, as per a press release.

According to the study, this arrangement is recognized as one of the most ancient filamentary formations discovered so far, and it is associated with a remote quasar.

 
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polymoog

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Huge young galaxies seen by JWST may upend our models of the universe

Galaxies spotted by the James Webb Space Telescope seem far too massive to have formed so early on in the universe’s history, which could be a problem for our ideas of galaxy formation
red, its all lies.

please check this out:

go directly to the 15:37 mark. watch until the 22:15 mark.

if you only have 2 minutes to spare:

they have nasa "artists" designing these space photos with cgi to keep the public interested.
believe NOTHING.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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A ‘space-view’ shift
Admissions about discoveries ‘reshaping’ astronomy and cosmology
by Lucien Tuinstra

NASA, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commonsnew-horizons-spacecraft-modelNew Horizons space probe

At Creation Ministries International, we often speak about worldviews. Ours is that of biblical creation, which seasoned followers know means creation in six 24-hour days, a little over 6,000 years ago. The Word of God underpins our way of thinking and any model or idea that contradicts Scripture needs to be either revised or discarded altogether. Of course, modifying or abandoning such models never denies scientific facts, rather the interpretations of those facts that are based upon a secular worldview.

In CMI, we are open and honest about our presuppositions. What about those who hold to a secular view of not only the world, but also that vast space beyond our atmosphere? Here we will look at some recent revelations from the fields of astronomy and cosmology in particular, before closing in on the vastly smaller scale of particle physics.

Formation of heavenly bodies
In an effort to resolve whether an object named Arrokoth formed by a violent collision or gentle accumulation, the spacecraft New Horizons was sent to the outer regions of our Solar System, to explore the so-called Kuiper Belt. Many astronomers believe that objects in this region are, “in effect, perfectly preserved fossils” from a distant past.1 Based on data gathered by the fly-by of New Horizons, astronomers made the case for a gentle coming together, with no evidence of squashing. This is talking about the matter accumulating to form a larger object; whether it was a tender process or catastrophic.

“Scientists say they have ‘decisively’ overturned the prevailing theory for how planets in our Solar System formed.”1
Other observations have been shaking the foundations of the big bang.
That prevailing idea about the Solar System’s origin is based on the naturalistic outworkings of the big bang theory. The explosive bang supposedly happened some 13.8 billion years ago and marked the beginning of the universe. Dr Maggie Aderin-Pocock, a BBC presenter, warns against being too hasty with throwing out the current planet formation theory and replacing it with a new model. She said that this was only one object.

Yet, other observations have been shaking the foundations of the big bang.

This is a bit of a conundrum, because observations are performed in the present, but many people are content to extrapolate these back into the distant past. Apparently, this is okay, as long as you stop extrapolating at about one second after the big bang. Reason being, that the initial conditions were rather unique. Now where have we heard something similar about the beginning? However, leaving the book of Genesis aside, the first tiny fraction of a second of (some of) the big bang model(s) consisted of exponential cosmic inflation. Moreover, this inflation that occurred prior to the hot big bang, is inferred by well-established observations, according to Ethan Siegel, who in the same report argues that to extrapolate beyond your ‘observations’ is a dangerous game.2 According to some astronomers:

“…we can no longer speak with any sort of knowledge or confidence as to how—or even whether—the universe itself began.”2
Now that is quite an admission! Nonetheless, the article in question still features a subtitle that undermines this lack of confidence: “The Big Bang still happened a very long time ago, but it wasn’t the beginning we once supposed it to be.”2 Of course, the alternative to the big bang—a Genesis just thousands of years ago, as mentioned earlier—is unthinkable for many.

James Webb Space Telescope
NASA, Public domain, via Wikimedia CommonsJames-Webb-space-telescopeJames Webb Space Telescope
The 25th of December 2021 marked the launch of the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST). Touted as the long overdue, advanced replacement for the valuable Hubble Telescope, many scientists were expectant that JWST would shed light on the (secular) origin of the universe. Things did not quite turn out as they had hoped.

The assumption is, that the further away into space one peers, the older the observed objects are, and thus formed closer in time to the big bang. The design of JWST was intended to far outperform Hubble, and collect data from extremely distant galaxies. Maybe a handful galaxies were expected, but, from the first set of NASA released JWST data (13 July 2022), 87 were identified by astronomer Haojing Yan, who said:

“Even if just a small fraction turn out to be real, then our previously-favored picture of galaxy formation in the early universe must be revised.”3
They are right in questioning their understanding of galaxy formation, but searching in the wrong place.
Yet it does not end there. Since, JWST has yielded more data, and likely will continue to do so. Not only was the quantity of galaxies a huge surprise,4 so was the putative age of half a dozen of the ‘early’ galaxies. The research team assumed they made a mistake.

“It turns out we found something so unexpected it actually creates problems for science. It calls the whole picture of early galaxy formation into question.”5
One possibility under consideration is that they have not found massive galaxies, but black holes instead. They are right in questioning their understanding of galaxy formation, but searching in the wrong place.

Galaxies and other space objects that are not supposed to be there
More galaxies have been found in the wrong place. Consider the Wolfe Disk, properly named Galaxy DLA0817g. It has a shape like a disk and rotates, just like our Solar System. Upon its discovery, CNN reported in 2020 that most ‘early’ galaxies are messy due to violent collisions, but this one is different due to slow accretion of gas. This, in turn, was in line with the publication a few months earlier (see above) that challenged the idea of violent merging of matter to form larger objects over time. It sounds like the scientists haven’t got all their ducks in a row when it comes to their ideas about galactic origins:

“But according to what scientists know about galaxy formation, this one has no business being in the distant universe.”6
Speaking about remote rotating disk galaxies, Marcel Neeleman, lead study author and postdoctoral researcher at the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy in Heidelberg (Germany), said, “we now have unambiguous evidence that they occur as early as 1.5 billion years after the Big Bang.”6 This makes it sound like light-years are a measure of time, when really they signify distance.7

Cush, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commonsstandard-model-of-elementary-particlesStandard Model of Elementary Particles
Consider also the revelation that, a “‘Giant arc’ stretching 3.3 billion light-years across the cosmos shouldn’t exist”.8 The arc, comprised of galaxies and galactic clusters, is one of the largest structures in the universe and placed 9.2 billion light-years away. What is unexpected about this ‘arc’ is that it goes against the idea that matter is evenly distributed throughout space, which goes against the Standard Model of the universe’s origin. Alexia Lopez, a doctoral candidate in cosmology at the University of Central Lancashire (UCLan) in the UK, said:

“If we’re finding it [the Standard Model] not to be true, maybe we need to start looking at a different set of theories or rules.”8
Quite, although she is obviously referring to secular ideas, rather than ones based upon the biblical creation account. Interestingly, Roger Clowes, who supervises Alexia Lopez at UCLan, was involved in an earlier report, claiming to describe the largest arc in the universe, about 4 billion light-years across.

Standard Model physics
Continuing on the Standard Model theme, University of New South Wales (UNSW) Sydney Professor John Webb—no relation to the name of the Space Telescope—recently discussed a physical constant which appeared not to be so constant when investigating a quasar from the (in his mind) infant region of the universe. He suggests that, “the universe may not be isotropic in its laws of physics—one that is the same, statistically, in all directions”.9

“… if electromagnetism is shown to be very slightly different in certain regions of the cosmos, the most fundamental concepts underpinning much of modern physics will need revision.”10
This candour reveals just how shaky much of cosmological theorising is.

Finally, something more ‘tangible’, or at least, nearer to us, albeit very hard to visualise: the so-called W boson. A boson is a subatomic particle, and the ‘W’ is one of the weak bosons. Recently, its mass has experimentally been determined (again) and is different (by 0.1%) from what was theoretically predicted. That might seem a small percentage to most of us, but it is a huge difference in terms of particle physics. Similar to the scientists mentioned earlier, this research team also initially thought they had it wrong, but after lots of digging into their data and number crunching, no errors were found. Yet, the next two most accurate measurements of the value of the W boson are consistent with each other as well as the Standard Model prediction, so the controversy about this particular experiment remains.

“If the results are verified by other experiments, the world is going to look different. There has to be a paradigm shift.”10
Will the real W boson please stand up?

Closing remarks
Science is a wonderful thing and the quotes we have considered here are candid and revealing. They show that astrophysicists and astronomers do not have everything figured out, and chances are they will not anytime soon. Scientists often speak with a lot of certainty, which is not per se a bad thing, even if they sometimes get it wrong. However, excluding a priori some views from consideration is bad practice, and this happens far too often in the realm of origins science.

Unlike the science textbooks—which frequently go out of date—the Word of God is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). Sadly, it is doubtful that all the people involved in the research projects discussed above, seeing the contradictions of their ideas by their own data, will quickly turn to the revelation from the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth. After all, His Word does not mention—or even hints at—billions of years. Instead, they will likely just keep on searching for other materialistic means to explain what took them by surprise. As BBC science writer Pallab Ghosh writes, “There has to be a paradigm shift”;10 indeed! Nevertheless, that shift should take place, not solely within the confines of a naturalistic framework (as he meant it) but should encompass the supernatural—literally beyondthe natural, the realm of the Creator.

Published: 29 August 2023
References and notes
  1. Ghosh, P., New Horizons spacecraft ‘alters theory of planet formation’, bbc.com, 13 Feb 2020. Return to text.
  2. Siegel, E., We now know the big bang theory is (probably) not how the universe began, freethink.com, 30 Oct 2012. Return to text.
  3. Mann, A., Webb telescope turns up baffling views of the early universe, livescience.com, 11 Jan 2023. Return to text.
  4. Clery, D., Webb telescope reveals unpredicted bounty of bright galaxies in early universe, science.org, 9 Aug 2022. Return to text.
  5. Starr, M., Astronomers Detect 6 Massive Galaxies So Old They Can’t Be Explained by Science, sciencealert.com, 23 Feb 2023. Return to text.
  6. Strickland, A., Astronomers find the Wolfe Disk, an unlikely galaxy, in the distant universe, cnn.com, 23 May 2020. Return to text.
  7. One light-year is 9.46 trillion kilometres (~9.5 million million km). Return to text.
  8. Mann, A., ‘Giant arc’ stretching 3.3 billion light-years across the cosmos shouldn’t exist, livescience.com, 11 Jun 2021. Return to text.
  9. Gilbert, L., New findings suggest laws of nature ‘downright weird,’ not as constant as previously thought, phys.org, 27 Apr 2020. Return to text.
  10. Ghosh, P., Shock result in particle experiment could spark physics revolution, bbc.com, 7 Apr 2022. Return to text.
 
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