Is it Ethical to Eat Meat?

[elsbet]

So he's exploiting people for money through deception and that's wrong.

He's a revolting human being-- that's not news. But you're going to have to help me with his connection to Doc Mercola.

How long have you been vegan now?

 

[mecca]

But you're going to have to help me with his connection to Doc Mercola.

They have the same business model.

What Illuminized pointed out about Mercola reminded me of Alex Jones because he does the same thing.

How long have you been vegan now?

I haven't. I never said I was vegan, in fact I said that I'm not vegan in this thread.

You're a vegan, I suppose.

Recognizing the harmfulness of factory farms doesn't require being vegan.

 

[elsbet]

"So?" is what you say when you dont care about right and wrong.

Contentious.
Anything to keep it exciting, right.. smh

 

[elsbet]

They have the same business model.

An evil business model?
What are you basing that on, anyway?

They do not beg for donations or run ads, like Jones.

Since when is it a crime to run a business?

... Mercola.com differs from many other business models in that 15 to 20% of income goes to non-profit organizations.

His only crime seems to be that he shines a light on the risks of Veganism, and you don't like that.

 

[quarterback]

Same way you regulate any industry, really. It would benefit people and animals if they weren't permitted to load them with chemicals and cancer causing hormones which should be outlawed imo. And living conditions should be conducive to the animals health.

Instead, the mad scientists are running the show and screwing with genetics.. did you know featherless chickens are a reality now? That's wrong on so many levels. -.-

amm. 'same way as i reguate' ? holy shit, we now have the divide and conquer that 'they' have instigated.

i'm out of this thread. there is no proper rational debate just finger pointing which 'they' want.

(was reading through this thread again)
i know i said i was out of this thread ... (though would like to add that i was on-topic and was unfairly trolled) ....
but here i think i jumped the gun a bit. apologies to elsbet in this instance.

 

[elsbet]

(was reading through this thread again)
i know i said i was out of this thread ... (though would like to add that i was on-topic and was unfairly trolled) ....
but here i think i jumped the gun a bit. apologies to elsbet in this instance.

No worries.. tis a hot topic.

 

[DesertRose]

 

[Venus]

I guess some prefer their meals to not be able to express their pain and been unable to run.
It has been proved that plants feel pain for more of a couple of decades now. Making the whole point of avoiding pain and suffering moot.

It's a shame that most people only see life black or white, missing all the other wonderful colours, this comment goes especially to those hardcore vegans and carnivorous.

 

[mecca]

It has been proved that plants feel pain for more of a couple of decades now.

Can you source that? Because I'm pretty sure that hasn't been proven and it's a disputed topic. But regardless if they feel pain or not, they are still living beings and harming plants should be minimized as much as possible along with the harming of animals.

Making the whole point of avoiding pain and suffering moot.

The best thing to do would be to reduce the amount of pain/suffering and destruction caused as much as possible. Reducing meat consumption will do that in many ways. Eating less meat will also mean that less plants are killed and eaten as well. It would be a reduction in harm for both plants, animals, the environment, and ourselves as well.

 

[Venus]

@mecca, plants are alive, they have the force of life inside them, the same as we all. I don't have the time to look to the scientific articles describing the different types of research done that prove that plants have chemical reactions when harmed, (cutting a leaf for example) same way we have chemical reacctions to being harmed. Or how the send out chemicals that reach other plants of the same species and provoke a reaction on them.

Pain, suffering and destrucion are a nesecary "evil" , they permit change and evolution, been it phisical or spiritual, what is important is to not make that suffering vain.

 

[mecca]

plants are alive, they have the force of life inside them, the same as we all.

Yes I know that.

plants have chemical reactions when harmed

I also know that. Plants do have survival mechanisms, and they do communicate with each other... but to actually be able to feel the pain they would need nerves and a brain. Plants don't have brains or nerves like most other living things, that's why I question if they can actually feel physical pain like animals can. I don't question that plants are living beings that have defenses to keep them from being harmed. I guess we can't ever really determine what it feels like to be a plant because we are not plants.

Regardless if plants actually feel physical pain or not, I do think that we should be respectful of them as living beings and not kill them indiscriminately. I care about nature and the environment. All life works with each other to keep the ecosystem flowing so humans definitely shouldn't be destroying everything because there will be bad consequences.

 

[mecca]

Pain, suffering and destrucion are a nesecary "evil" , they permit change and evolution, been it phisical or spiritual, what is important is to not make that suffering vain.

In order to sustain a living being, you have to kill another living being... that's how the food chain works. But since humans are capable of caring for other life forms and are not completely driven by a killing instinct, we should attempt to cause the least amount of harm and destruction possible and be as humane as possible. Especially considering humans are apex predators and can kill as much as we like.

In order to cause the least amount of harm to life and nature, we definitely have to solve the problem of factory farming and animal cruelty because it hurts animals, plants, nature, and humans.

Since factory farms have so many animals to feed, they also use up a lot of plant life for food. Being vegan is a way to benefit plants and animals because it reduces the amount of plants being harmed and the amount of animals being harmed, that's why I say that bringing up plant life in a discussion about animal cruelty is a little bit irrelevant because vegans are trying to reduce harm, there will still be harm but there will be less of it and I think that's better than nothing and it's a great step in improving the world. That's why I support vegans and agree with their points.

 

[Venus]

While your reasoning is correct, your conclusion is not. Factory farming is wrong and should end. That probably will never happen but that doesn't mean we should all become vegan.

More humane ways of raising animals exist. They have existed since mes settled with the advent of agriculture. We should go back to eating locally, to supporting our local farms and farmers. Instead of having a daily big mac, have a nice steak bought from your local butcher once a week. If you have direct access to a cattle raising farm, get your meat from there. Know from where our food comes from, the less processed and more close to nature you eat the better. If you want to be vegan, or vegetarian, or ovo-vegetarian, or whatever other distinction are out there, good.

Avoiding all types of pain, suffering, and death we are becoming less human, not more.

 

[mecca]

That probably will never happen

Things happen because people make them happen. Factory farming is unsustainable and will cause much more damage if it continues so it will have to end eventually in some way.

that doesn't mean we should all become vegan

I have never said that everyone should become vegan, I said being vegan is a way to cause less harm and help the environment and I agree with the people who want to do that. Veganism goes against factory farming and that's a good thing.

We should go back to eating locally, to supporting our local farms and farmers. Know from where our food comes from, the less processed and more close to nature you eat the better.

Yes those are good steps to a healthy diet and a better world.

Avoiding all types of pain, suffering, and death we are becoming less human, not more.

In what way? Death is an inescapable part of life but that doesn't mean we should allow or cause a bunch of unnecessary deaths to happen. Improving the world would make us better as a species... we are still human regardless of our actions but I think we should all strive to be the best humans we can be.

 

[Venus]

In what way? Death is an inescapable part of life but that doesn't mean we should allow or cause a bunch of unnecessary deaths to happen. Improving the world would make us better as a species... we are still human regardless of our actions but I think we should all strive to be the best humans we can be.

It teaches us strenght, resilince, humilty, love, empathy; all important parts of life that are getting lost in today's world.

 

[mecca]

It teaches us strenght, resilince, humilty, love, empathy; all important parts of life that are getting lost in today's world.

I don't think those things are getting lost because there is less unnecessary death... because bad things are still happening to people right now, there is still suffering in the world. Those values would actually be the ones that help us to be more compassionate and humane in our interaction with animals and everything else. As those traits become more prominent, suffering should be reduced because they have an inverse relationship.

I don't think that reducing suffering in the world would lead to people forgetting these traits because they are necessary in order to maintain a positive world. Also I don't think hardship can ever completely go away... so it can always be used as a positive learning experience.

 

[enderpotato00]

Its natural. Animals eat each other in the wild. Why should we not eat meat? But yea as long as its not inhumanely killed, and its a swift and easy death.

 

[Lisa]

Its natural. Animals eat each other in the wild. Why should we not eat meat? But yea as long as its not inhumanely killed, and its a swift and easy death.

Can you still eat the meat if you don’t kill the animal swiftly?
I was thinking of my first fishing trip. We thought it would be fun to take our kids fishing not realizing what that actually means. We caught a fish but had no idea how to kill it and it was horrible listening to it trying to breathe and we didn’t know what to do. Then someone came by, knocked it on the head and it was over. Could we still eat that fish considering our ignorance?

For the record we didn’t eat it, we gave it to the people who owned the stocked lake and they gave us a frozen one to eat later..modern life

 

[Illuminized]

Its natural. Animals eat each other in the wild. Why should we not eat meat? But yea as long as its not inhumanely killed, and its a swift and easy death.

Not if humans are a part of a separate development. I might de-emphasize the importance of humans at times, but it's always worth pointing out how, in nature, there has never been such a big jump as humans allegedly ascending from apes. Must recall that this aspect of the evolutionary idea was speculation by Darwin, never established for a fact. It's clear that the human kingdom is distinct from the animal kingdom, although both are governed by similar laws of the universe.

Humans eating animals, all this was bemoaned by Pythagoras. "I admit that creatures that seek our destruction may be killed without it being a sin, but while they may be killed, they still should not be eaten." Humans eating animals upsets balance and people will have to eat meat until this is compensated. Then they will lose the taste for meat. I myself used to be a heavy meat eater. For instance, I'd eat like one or two hamburgers every two or three days. Meat on the pizza toppings. Meat in the sandwich. Meat in the soup. This mania for meat is a symptom of disrupting delicate balance. As condemnable as hunting animals for sport. Eventually, the meat got very bland, repetitive, tasteless, gave me indigestion, etc. and I switched to vegetarianism (once again I'm not advocating veganism, I think vegetarianism is the best compromise).

Don't try to sell me Jesus as a meat-eater when 7 (including post-resurrection) of his unique non-healing/exorcism/resurrection miracles involve food. Those were probably parables distorted into wonders. It can't be denied that there was one instance where he compared the kingdom of god to catching fish.

 

[mecca]

humans allegedly ascending from apes

They say it's a common ancestor though, if humans came from apes then there wouldn't be apes.