Jobs sufferings

[Lyfe]

Jobs sufferings

...lately the book of Job keeps getting brought up by my friends. Why do you believe God saw it fit to include this story in his word? What does it teach us, exactly?

Job 16:6-16
English Standard Version
6 “If I speak, my pain is not assuaged,
and if I forbear, how much of it leaves me?
7 Surely now God has worn me out;
he has[a] made desolate all my company.
8 And he has shriveled me up,
which is a witness against me,
and my leanness has risen up against me;
it testifies to my face.
9 He has torn me in his wrath and hated me;
he has gnashed his teeth at me;
my adversary sharpens his eyes against me.
10 Men have gaped at me with their mouth;
they have struck me insolently on the cheek;
they mass themselves together against me.
11 God gives me up to the ungodly
and casts me into the hands of the wicked.
12 I was at ease, and he broke me apart;
he seized me by the neck and dashed me to pieces;
he set me up as his target;
13 his archers surround me.
He slashes open my kidneys and does not spare;
he pours out my gall on the ground.
14 He breaks me with breach upon breach;
he runs upon me like a warrior.
15 I have sewed sackcloth upon my skin
and have laid my strength in the dust.
16 My face is red with weeping,
and on my eyelids is deep darkness,

 

[Lyfe]

 

[Dalit]

Jobs sufferings

...lately the book of Job keeps getting brought up by my friends. Why do you believe God saw it fit to include this story in his word? What does it teach us, exactly?

Job 16:6-16
English Standard Version
6 “If I speak, my pain is not assuaged,
and if I forbear, how much of it leaves me?
7 Surely now God has worn me out;
he has[a] made desolate all my company.
8 And he has shriveled me up,
which is a witness against me,
and my leanness has risen up against me;
it testifies to my face.
9 He has torn me in his wrath and hated me;
he has gnashed his teeth at me;
my adversary sharpens his eyes against me.
10 Men have gaped at me with their mouth;
they have struck me insolently on the cheek;
they mass themselves together against me.
11 God gives me up to the ungodly
and casts me into the hands of the wicked.
12 I was at ease, and he broke me apart;
he seized me by the neck and dashed me to pieces;
he set me up as his target;
13 his archers surround me.
He slashes open my kidneys and does not spare;
he pours out my gall on the ground.
14 He breaks me with breach upon breach;
he runs upon me like a warrior.
15 I have sewed sackcloth upon my skin
and have laid my strength in the dust.
16 My face is red with weeping,
and on my eyelids is deep darkness,

I think this book is a great example of the failings of the prosperity gospel since Job's friends automatically assumed he was being punished for his sins via Deuteronomy 28. Do good, live prosperously. Do bad/sin, live badly. In the end, his friends were reproved by God.

Basically, the best thing his friends did was the silent mourning with him for the 1st 7 days.

Also, the book shows the behind the scenes reality of spiritual warfare. The devil wanted Job to curse God, which he never did. He even reproved his wife for her foolishness in suggesting that he "curse God and die." He is a great example of patience and steadfastness (James 5:11).

 

[Lyfe]

I think this book is a great example of the failings of the prosperity gospel since Job's friends automatically assumed he was being punished for his sins via Deuteronomy 28. Do good, live prosperously. Do bad/sin, live badly. In the end, his friends were reproved by God.

Basically, the best thing his friends did was the silent mourning with him for the 1st 7 days.

Also, the book shows the behind the scenes reality of spiritual warfare. The devil wanted Job to curse God, which he never did. He even reproved his wife for her foolishness in suggesting that he "curse God and die." He is a great example of patience and steadfastness (James 5:11).

It does make me wonder though if these sort of testings still occur and how frequent they are. Will God remove his hand of protection intentionally to try someone?

 

[Lizard King]

Why is God torturing Job to begin with is what I never understood. And what about all of Job's daughters and animals and everything else? Do they get their lives back. All of this so God can can impress Satan with how great he is? Something always rubbed me the wrong way about this story.

 

[Lyfe]

Why is God torturing Job to begin with is what I never understood. And what about all of Job's daughters and animals and everything else? Do they get their lives back. All of this so God can can impress Satan with how great he is? Something always rubbed me the wrong way about this story.

God didn't torture Job. Satan did.

 

[free2018]

Job’s story is a story about faith. I am grateful for this convo. I am getting powerful insight in a new way:

“
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord. “

No man was as good as Job. No man was as devoted to Abba.

Satan then intimates that Job won’t be as good with nothing.

 

[Lyfe]

...when people experience hardship and loss and are forced to overcome something terrible they attempt to embrace it and reason within themselves that it will make them stronger. They look to strength and an answer within themselves and even glory in all the things they have been tried with and been forced to triumph over in life. People love a good "against all odds" story, but if the lesson in these triublations doesnt bring a person to God then that is a failure on their behalf to see and understand what all this allowed hardship is meant to "really" convey.

Gods word teaches us that this world is broken, that it is languishing, that it is unpredictable and full of evil, prejudice, adultery, and injustice. It teaches that tommorow isnt promised for anyone. Jesus told us that in this world we will have tribulation. He spoke and said that our expectation should acctually be TRIBULATION and NOT of prosperity.

Rather than look to strength or an answer within ourselves in lifes tragedies we ought to regard what God is trying to teach us and strongly consider the things he has already told us in his word. This world is fallen and broken and can often leave a person feeling like their back is up against the wall with no way out of the corner. This plane of existence will always be unfair which is all the more reason we should stop trying to establish any sort of firm footing on frail foundations of sand, but instead turn to Jesus who is the very personification of security, comfort, and assurance. We should stop fighting so hard in the attempts to cling to something so broken, but rather we should come to the one who can save, heal, deliver, and give an inheritance in the world to come. The truth is that death comes to all and in the end no mans strength can save them in that day. All that pride in self and humanism and self empowerment will be worthless and unprofitable in the day of death, because when it does come God and only God can rescue. Jesus is the only one who has power and authority over death. He is the only one who can give the hope of an eternal life in a perfect reality where there is no sin, death, or tears. If our name is not recorded in the book of life then all of this will one day be in vain. This life will be all we have to enjoy, that's it. Society is worsening and things are not going to get any better.

Pain and suffering is often allowed to show us how futile it is to invest so much in a fallen and broken world that for so many only brings sorrow upon sorrow. God is the only one who can take pain and loss and turn it into something profitable and meaningful. Apart from him pain and loss usually only leads to more pain and loss and in the end separation from a God who loved them and called them to life and light in him.

Job 33:14-30
New Living Translation
14 For God speaks again and again,
though people do not recognize it.
15 He speaks in dreams, in visions of the night,
when deep sleep falls on people
as they lie in their beds.
16 He whispers in their ears
and terrifies them with warnings.
17 He makes them turn from doing wrong;
he keeps them from pride.
18 He protects them from the grave,
from crossing over the river of death.

19 “Or God disciplines people with pain on their sickbeds,
with ceaseless aching in their bones.
20 They lose their appetite
for even the most delicious food.
21 Their flesh wastes away,
and their bones stick out.
22 They are at death’s door;
the angels of death wait for them.

23 “But if an angel from heaven appears—
a special messenger to intercede for a person
and declare that he is upright—
24 he will be gracious and say,
‘Rescue him from the grave,
for I have found a ransom for his life.’
25 Then his body will become as healthy as a child’s,
firm and youthful again.
26 When he prays to God,
he will be accepted.
And God will receive him with joy
and restore him to good standing.
27 He will declare to his friends,
‘I sinned and twisted the truth,
but it was not worth it.[a]
28 God rescued me from the grave,
and now my life is filled with light.’

29 “Yes, God does these things
again and again for people.
30 He rescues them from the grave
so they may enjoy the light of life.

 

[Lyfe]

I really believe the idea that if you are walking in obedience to and following Christ you will by default be shielded from sadness or 'feelings' of depression is flawed. If you are truly abiding in Christ there will be times where it feels as if there is no real lack of joy and gladness, but there are also days and seasons where its more challenging to maintain that same level of peace and rest. The problem is when our view on suffering becomes stiff and dogmatic like it was for Jobs friends. They reasoned that because Job suffered it must have been, because he did something wrong or wasnt doing something right. Often suffering is a result of what we do and what we arent doing, but at the same time there are many situations that are more complex than what meets the eye.

The reality is If you walk with God long enough you will absolutely find yourself in the valley and you will eventually experience those times of grief and sorrow. In fact an entire third of the book of psalms consists of lamentations from a person who was very dear to God as well as his desperste cries for relief and restoration. In scripture it says that Jesus himself was a man of sorrows and one who was acquainted with grief. It acctually says of him thet he was OPPRESSED. The apostle Paul was "harassed" by a messenger of Satan and pleaded with God repeatedly to take away his affliction. It says he was often near death! Elijah ran to God and cried " enough." Jonah begged God to take his life. Scripture says that MANY are the afflictions of the righteous and also reminds us that if we are Gods children the discipline that he brings us up under will seem unpleasant to us for a time.

God directs our steps and gives us instruction, he disciples us that we may be equipped in the valley and in the evil day when it comes, he offers himself as a refuge and give us the keys to victory, but at the very same time we are warned to arm ourselves with the expectation of the trials and tribulations that so often paralyze people with grief. We wont always have the right answer for a brother or sister who is struggling. There is allot we dont see. We are called to exhort and uplift in a spirit of gentleness, but the truth is we just wont always have the perfect word for them or fully know what God is allowing or doing in their life. We shouldnt always see someones suffering and struggles as a result of them doing (or not doing) x,y, and z. We should exhort and encourage them, but we should also be careful to avoid a stiff and dogmatic view of the same suffering that we are told to expect.

 

[AspiringSoul]

the narrative that satan challenged God concerning Job's faith, is a poor one. it is only A perspective. the mind and ourc reative imagination allows ufor us to interpret life events/stories anyway we like.

so for example...another pov could have been that
our mind is like a garden, our heart like the soil.
Job had planted the seeds, they'd grown, they'd produced a harvest. however deep down they were not the ultimate quality he was hoping for. That is, because they were a by product of his youth and earlier life choices/conditioning etc.
So we learn about his adult children always feasting and partying...and he sacrifices in order to protect them. it doesnt appear like they're that good if he's the one doing it all for them.
so even on an unconscious level his higher consciousness as hlready rejected them as the archetypal fruit...and thus the soil is tilled and everything on it is destroyed, so bring something new. Since it was so so so deep seated in him, it took along time to come and in the meantime, he was with nothing. only suffering because all that he was rejecting on that unconscious level, was being tilled out of his heart and brought to the surface for him to exist in.

ive kind of been there. i mean not on that scale but ive been there, trust me. ive been there. it's a hard fking place when you open up wounds like that. everything can appear good 'enough' on the surface but your soul knows 'this isnt what i want' and the rest follows.

 

[AspiringSoul]

my bad for the typos..im half asleep still


4 His sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom.

a man of such faith, would not really be satified with just that. he would want his children to be people of the utmost higher level of sincerity and faith.
my point is he had already rejected them. on an unconscious level he sought their death and removal.
they were still a reflection of him, but probably his younger self.

i think the rest ofit, the narrative of the book of Job, is just what happens when a man doesnt understand what and why things happen.

i think it's even deeper that he saw God as a STORM. i mean when all that was buried deep in heart and was tilled and brough tto the surface, where could it go , he had to live in it, it surrounded him and caused him even further pain. it could only be swept away by a storm eventually.