Those who will not LIVE by The Law will DIE by The Law

[Lyfe]

Who taught you this obvious LIE?

The Law can only be a schoolmaster to someone if they are awake, paying attention in class and learning the lessons they are being taught. And the ONLY Way for that to happen is for everyone to read, study, keep and apply The Law in their every day lives.

The only part of The Law that was temporary was the ordinances carried out by the Levitical priesthood, e.g. the animal sacrifices. And even in those cases, neither of those things were actually abolished. The Levitical priesthood was simply reduced from many to ONE High Priest, after the order of Melchizedek (The King of Righteousness and King of Peace) and the animal being sacrificed merely became the human animal instead of cattle and sheep. Substitute animal sacrifice foreshadowed "self" sacrifice, in much the same way that Abraham offering up his miracle son Isaac foreshadowed Father offering up His Miracle Son Christ, to be sacrificed.

The informal reduction of the priesthood from many to one High Priest took place roughly 600 years BEFORE Jesus, as recorded in Jeremiah 23:1-6 and Ezekiel 34:1-10, 23. The formal reduction of the priesthood from many to one High Priest took place when the Temple Veil rent in two. A very obvious and recorded event that was well-documented.

The reformation, which took place in the 16th century AD, had absolutely nothing to do with either of these events, other than to sadly serve as the next chapter in ignoring God's Commands and Christ's True Teachings and Sacrifice.

Just as the Levitical priesthood ignored God's COMMANDS to cease and desist c. 600 B.C., and again during the lifetime of Jesus, even after His Crucifixion and Resurrection and everything they witnessed, the Roman Catholic priesthood ignored that Command as well, exactly as Christ prophesied and warned about (see Matt. 23:8-10). They were followed centuries later by the Protestant priests, pastors, ministers, etc., who have all done exactly the same thing. Why? BECAUSE NONE OF THEM DO AS THEY ARE COMMANDED BY GOD AND BY HIS CHRIST TO DO, PROVING THEY DO NOT WORK FOR GOD.

It is those same Protestant pastors/preachers, etc. who have taught their unwitting(?) victims to ignore Christ's COMMANDS and trUE Teachings by seeking refuge in their MISINTERPRETATIONS of the letters of Paul, just as you are doing now.

IF you are truly interested in understanding the letters of Paul, then you MUST read, study both The Law and the Gospel, and ask God ALONE for HIS Guidance, in preference to any so-called Christian priest, pastor, minister, etc. (by whatever names they wish to call themselves).

The Law is found in the first five books of the Bible, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

The Gospel accounts are found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Thomas.

IF you read and study these, you will see that it is impossible for The Law to ever pass away, exactly as Christ told us while He was here in the body of Jesus.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and Earth shall pass away, but my words shall NOT pass away.

If you didn't already know this, it was Christ Who met with Abraham as Melchizedek (Gen. 14:18-20; Koks - John 8:47-49, KJV - John 8:56-58).

If you didn't already know this, it was Christ Who met with Moses in the burning bush (Exod. 3:1-3) and gave Moses The Law before leading Moses and the Israelites through the wilderness of Sin (Exod. 23:20-23).

If you didn't already know this, it was Christ Who brought down fire from heaven (Matt. 3:11, Luke 3:16) as Elijah (1 kings 18:17-40; 2 kings 1:8-12), to prove the priests of that time were satanic and to destroy them and the evil soldiers that Ahab sent.

If you didn't already know this, it was Christ Who incarnated Jesus 2000 years ago, at which time He plainly explained that The Law God gave us, and that ALL of the Prophets taught and warned us to return to, would NEVER pass away (Matt. 5:17-20).

This is why Christ is referred to throughout both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant as THE WORD.


Who taught you this obvious LIE? Deuteronomy 29:9-15 plainly states that everyone on Earth is party to the Covenant, whether they acknowledge that fact or not. God does NOT apply His Law unequally to one group of people but not another.

God gave His Law to the people Israel so that they could be a peculiar, demonstration people to the rest of the world (Deut. 14:2), showing everyone else the Blessings from God that await all those who keep His Law. That way, the neighbours would want to be a part of Israel, and would be allowed to do so as long as they kept The Law. The borders of Israel would then expand to include those neighbouring countries, and the entire process would repeat itself until the entire world would become Israel, i.e. the Kingdom of God here on Earth. THAT was what the "grafting into Israel of the Gentiles" was meant to be.

Unfortunately, Israel ceased to be a demonstration people, and decided to replace God with an earthly king (see: 1 Sam. 8 - the saddest day in Israel's history), because they didn't keep The Law. It is interesting to note however, that even when they marginally kept The Law, e.g. under the reigns of king David and king Solomon, God blessed Israel by making them the wealthiest and most powerful nation on Earth at that time. Blessings which Solomon then squandered, choosing instead to multiply his own personal wealth and wives instead of keeping, administering and enforcing God's Law ONLY (Deut. 17:14-20), as he promised to do.


As above please. Deuteronomy 29:9-15 and all of Paul's letters confirming The Law (see: Rom. 11) prove you don't know what you're talking about, which is why you need to read and study The Law that Christ COMMANDS us to keep.

Have you never heard of "the grafting into Israel of the Gentiles (foreigners)"? This literally began with and by The Law.

Deuteronomy 1:16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear [the causes] between your brethren, and judge righteously between [every] man and his brother, and the stranger [that is] with him.

Deuteronomy 5:14 But the seventh day (Saturday) [is] the Sabbath of the "I AM" thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Deuteronomy 10:18-19
10:18 He doth execute the Judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
10:19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

There are dozens of references to "the strangers" (Gentiles) in The Law and in all cases they are to be treated justly and fairly in accordance with The Law, which they themselves are obligated to keep to be part of Israel.


No, it didn't. Who taught you that obvious LIE?

It was the second version of Solomon's Temple (more widely known as Herod's Temple) that was completely destroyed in 70 A.D., fulfilling Christ's Prophecy that there would not be so much as "one stone upon another" (Matt. 24:1-3). And yet most "Christians", instead of believing Christ, believe the counterfeit Jews of the synagogue of Satan and their oxymoronic "Christian Zionism", who falsely claim that the part of the temple now referred to as "the wailing wall" somehow survived.

By the way, here is Christ telling us in His Revelation to John that those who are with Him and therefore victorious (Rev. 14:1-4), will be singing the "Song of Moses" up to and beyond Judgment Day.

Revelation 15:3 And they sing the "Song of Moses" (Old Covenant - Deut. 31) the servant of God, AND the "Song of the Lamb" (New Covenant), saying, Great and marvellous [are] Thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] Thy Ways, Thou King of the holy people.


Who taught you that obvious LIE? And why don't you know better than to repeat it?

Matthew 6:9-13
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.
6:10 Thy Kingdom come. THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH, as [it is] in heaven.
6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
6:12 And forgive us our debts and trespasses (if we truly repent), as we forgive our debtors and those who trespass against us (if they truly repent).
6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For Thine is The Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

How can any rationally-minded individual actually believe that doing God's Will somehow involves disobeying Him and His Law?

The terms and conditions of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant are exactly the same: BOTH require us to obey God and His Law (Heb. 8:7-12; Rev. 15:3).

To be able to be ministers (servants) of the New Covenant, one must learn to obey it. And not one single "Christian" today obeys Christ's Commands, exactly as Christ prophesied (Matt. 7:21-27).

John 14:15 If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments.

You are denying that the law was given as a schoolmaster until Christ and the time of reformation? This is literally in the new testament....


Galatians 3:23-27

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Hebrews 8:13

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9:1-10

9 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

So, in regard to your question, "Who taught you this lie?"

There just too much in what you said that's false. The conditions of the new covenant are the same as the old? That's also wrong. It's not worth my time and energy to copy and paste more scriptures for you, especially on a phone. You clearly prefer error and a law you have never kept a day in your life.

 

[A Freeman]

You are denying that the law was given as a schoolmaster until Christ and the time of reformation? This is literally in the new testament....

No, I'm not and no, it isn't. You are again seeking refuge in your misunderstandings and misinterpretations of the letters of Paul, so that you can continue to ignore Christ's crystal clear message that The Law will NEVER pass away (Matt. 5:17-20).

A schoolmaster is a TEACHER. You cannot learn anything from a Teacher unless you read, study, understand and thus complete the lesson.

What was the lesson to be learned from The Law?

That we all fell under the curse of The Law, which is the PENALTY CLAUSE FOR NOT KEEPING THE LAW. See: Deut. 28:15-68, or just read it at the direct link below:

Those who will not LIVE by The Law will DIE by The Law

This has been the message from our Creator since the beginning. Our loving Creator wants only what is best for us, and has provided us with His Perfect Law of Liberty to protect us from evil and to set and keep us free from the poverty, oppression, injustice, death and destruction that comes...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

IF we had kept The Law, then we wouldn't have fallen under the curse of The Law, and Christ would not have had to pay such a terrible price to ransom us from the death-sentence we earned for our disobedience. Therefore, if we genuinely Love Christ and are genuinely grateful for Christ's Sacrifice, we will LEARN from our previous mistake, and STOP REPEATING IT (aka repent).

Anyone who doesn't understand this very simple lesson can NEVER be brought to Christ.

Galatians 3:23-27

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

As above please. Anyone pretending to have faith in Christ Jesus while not keeping the Commandments is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in them (1 John 2:3-4). Remember?

And further, how can one claim to "have put on Christ" without putting on INCORRUPTION, i.e. learning to be Christ-like (John 14:6)? Do you think Christ breaks The Law?

1 Corinthians 15:51-57
15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the [seventh] Trumpet shall sound, and the "dead" shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality [be born again as your spirit-being].
15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, THEN shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory [over the "Self"].
15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] The Law [whilst not keeping The Commandments].
15:57 But thanks [be] to God, Which giveth us the victory THROUGH our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 8:13

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 8:7-13
8:7 For IF that first [Covenant] had been [followed] faultlessly, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8:8 For finding fault WITH THEM, He saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the House of Israel [ten "Lost" tribes] and with the House of Judah:
8:9 Not according to The Covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued NOT in My Covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
8:10 For THIS [is] The Covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My Laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people:
8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.
8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
8:13 In that He saith, A New [Covenant], He hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away [so revitalize it] (READ Revelation 15:3).

Revelation 15:3 And they sing the "Song of Moses" (Old Covenant - Deut. 31) the servant of God, AND the "Song of the Lamb" (New Covenant), saying, Great and marvellous [are] Thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] Thy Ways, Thou King of the holy people.

IF someone truly has God's Laws written in their hearts and minds, they can NEVER forget them and their thoughts, words and actions will tell everyone exactly what is in their hearts and minds.

Hebrews 9:1-10

9 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Can you really not see that NOW is the time of the true reformation, during Christ's Second Coming, when Christ will finally be honoured by the "Elect" as The High Priest.

Hebrews 9:10-15
9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and diverse washings, and carnal ORDINANCES, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
9:11 But Christ being come The High Priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect Tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building (Daniel 2:45);
9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].
9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the Eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works TO SERVE THE LIVING GOD?
9:15 And for this cause he is The Mediator of the New Testament (Covenant), that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first [Covenant] [Old] Testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

How can any rationally-minded individual believe that disobeying God is somehow serving Him? The ONLY Way to serve God is to KEEP HIS LAW/COMMANDMENTS.

So, in regard to your question, "Who taught you this lie?"

There just too much in what you said that's false.

There is NOTHING that has been personally shared on this forum about keeping The Law that is false. The reason that you believe otherwise is because you are seeing everything upside down and backwards, through human eyes instead of through spiritual eyes.

Your entire argument is against obeying God, despite being provided a mountain of evidence -- the entirety of Scripture really -- that tells us unequivocally that we MUST obey God to LIVE and that anyone who doesn't is going to burn for it.

Anyone arguing against obedience to God and His Law is very obviously working for Satan, and spreading Satan's LIES, to con others into joining Satan in The Fire.

Anyone who genuinely loves and cares for others would be warning them of the consequences of continuing in sin.

1 John 3:10-11
3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT righteousness is NOT of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the Beginning (Alpha), that we should love one another.

The conditions of the new covenant are the same as the old?

Correct. The New Covenant adds a spiritual dimension, but it still requires everyone to obey God and His Law/Commandments. You do understand that everyone in heaven obeys God and His Law, do you not? And that no one will be admitted into heaven unless they too have learned obedience, just as Christ did (Heb. 5:8).

That's also wrong.

No, it isn't wrong; that's part of your inverted vision through human eyes (Isa. 5:20-21). God is Holy, Just, Good and Perfect, and so is His Law.

John 7:16-17
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

It's not worth my time and energy to copy and paste more scriptures for you, especially on a phone. You clearly prefer error and a law you have never kept a day in your life.

How would you know what anyone else is doing and why is it you feel you need to judge others by your own faulty standard instead of by Father's Perfect Law? God says we can and must obey Him and His Law. Believe God and His Law instead of your own faulty reasoning and unjust standards.

 

[Lizard King]

Dylan also had a song "Everybody Has to Serve Somebody", which true of all of us.

Interestingly, the story of the adulterous woman, from which the quote "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her" came from, was added to the Bible centuries later. It was NOT part of the original manuscripts, because the incident never happened.

Should the Story of the Adulterous Woman from John 7:53-8:11 be Included in the Bible? — Who Is Like You Ministries

The Story of the Adulterous Woman is a passage that most people are told from childhood. It comes from the Gospel of John 7:53-8:12. It is more commonly known as the pericope adultera. But is it original?

www.whoislikeyouministries.org

Yeah the name of the album is called Slow Train Coming and it is actually pretty good. It is called his Christian album. I'm not sure if he remained a Christian though or reverted back to being a Jew. BTW his real name is Bob Zimmerman if you didn't know. I also have the Bible read by Johnny Cash. He made a lot of trips to the Biblical places and filmed things there. Didn't know that Sin Quote didn't really happen I thought it was out of the Bible. Also curious what you think about the 10 Commandments movie with Charlton Heston. I got it on Blu-ray but have yet to open it. Also Ben Hur?

 

[A Freeman]

Yeah the name of the album is called Slow Train Coming and it is actually pretty good. It is called his Christian album. I'm not sure if he remained a Christian though or reverted back to being a Jew. BTW his real name is Bob Zimmerman if you didn't know.

Thank-you. That song (Everybody has to serve somebody) is also on Dylan/Zimmerman's greatest hits, which also has "Jokerman" (speaking of the ego, or directly about Satan, who manipulates our egos), "Everything is Broken" (which is a great description of the world today), Knockin' on Heaven's Door, and "Hurricane", a re-telling of the story of the arrest and incarceration of Rubin "Hurricane" Carter in N.J., among a number of other popular songs.

The evangelical Christian thing didn't last that long. Dylan/Zimmerman went back to Talmudic Judaism. Not sure what his claimed religious affiliation is today. From what it sounds like, he doesn't even know.

I also have the Bible read by Johnny Cash. He made a lot of trips to the Biblical places and filmed things there. Didn't know that Sin Quote didn't really happen I thought it was out of the Bible.

The adulterous woman story is included in many versions of the Bible, to which it was added (most likely by Roman Catholicism). It is sometimes separated by brackets (to show it wasn't in the original text), and it sometimes appears in different places.

What seems amazing is its author was obviously unfamiliar with the Greek spoken during the early part of the first century, AND unfamiliar with The Law AND unfamiliar with the rest of the Gospel accounts as well, which the story contradicts. Not only is the story not present in earlier texts, but the Greek text doesn't match any of the surrounding verses, breaks up the flow before and after it, and uses words that are simply foreign to the rest of the Gospel.

According to the story, the woman was caught red-handed in the act of adultery. As it takes two to tango, where was the man she was caught with in the act? They both would have been stoned according to The Law, and yet there's no mention of the man. Further proof the story is a fraud.

Of course the story contradicts all of Jesus' previous references to The Law, and that it would never pass away, which is the real reason it was added. That fabricated story basically opened the door, so people could feel like they could get away with anything, including adultery, because "Jesus knows what's in their hearts".

Also curious what you think about the 10 Commandments movie with Charlton Heston. I got it on Blu-ray but have yet to open it.

It's a personal favourite. The prologue delivered by Cecil B. DeMille before the beginning of the film is as accurate today as it was when he delivered it over 65 years ago. Definitely worth the watch. Particularly around Passover (after sunset on the 30th of March).

Also Ben Hur?

It's an interesting film if you haven't seen it. Cecil B. DeMille's 10 Commandments is one that's been watched many times, while Ben Hur only once all the way through.

 

[Lizard King]

Thank-you. That song (Everybody has to serve somebody) is also on Dylan/Zimmerman's greatest hits, which also has "Jokerman" (speaking of the ego, or directly about Satan, who manipulates our egos), "Everything is Broken" (which is a great description of the world today), Knockin' on Heaven's Door, and "Hurricane", a re-telling of the story of the arrest and incarceration of Rubin "Hurricane" Carter in N.J., among a number of other popular songs.

The evangelical Christian thing didn't last that long. Dylan/Zimmerman went back to Talmudic Judaism. Not sure what his claimed religious affiliation is today. From what it sounds like, he doesn't even know.


The adulterous woman story is included in many versions of the Bible, to which it was added (most likely by Roman Catholicism). It is sometimes separated by brackets (to show it wasn't in the original text), and it sometimes appears in different places.

What seems amazing is its author was obviously unfamiliar with the Greek spoken during the early part of the first century, AND unfamiliar with The Law AND unfamiliar with the rest of the Gospel accounts as well, which the story contradicts. Not only is the story not present in earlier texts, but the Greek text doesn't match any of the surrounding verses, breaks up the flow before and after it, and uses words that are simply foreign to the rest of the Gospel.

According to the story, the woman was caught red-handed in the act of adultery. As it takes two to tango, where was the man she was caught with in the act? They both would have been stoned according to The Law, and yet there's no mention of the man. Further proof the story is a fraud.

Of course the story contradicts all of Jesus' previous references to The Law, and that it would never pass away, which is the real reason it was added. That fabricated story basically opened the door, so people could feel like they could get away with anything, including adultery, because "Jesus knows what's in their hearts".


It's a personal favourite. The prologue delivered by Cecil B. DeMille before the beginning of the film is as accurate today as it was when he delivered it over 65 years ago. Definitely worth the watch. Particularly around Passover (after sunset on the 30th of March).


It's an interesting film if you haven't seen it. Cecil B. DeMille's 10 Commandments is one that's been watched many times, while Ben Hur only once all the way through.

In case you haven't heard what I think is the best song off Slow Train Coming it's called When You Gonna Wake Up. The lyrics are particularly relevant for today. Also a few old ones fit today pretty good too. A Hard Rain Is Gonna Fall, Masters of War, Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll. About his current religious affiliation: Anything that makes a buck? I remember reading that Ruben Carter turned out to be guilty. Never heard Joker Man. The album John Wesley Harding has a song about Judas Priest. Highway 61 Revisited is my favorite album by him. Don't really pay attention to him anymore. Just the old stuff. All Along the Watchtower: the hour is getting late.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I saw this online and thought it gently pointed to the truth of things…

 

[free2018]

Thank-you. That song (Everybody has to serve somebody) is also on Dylan/Zimmerman's greatest hits, which also has "Jokerman" (speaking of the ego, or directly about Satan, who manipulates our egos), "Everything is Broken" (which is a great description of the world today), Knockin' on Heaven's Door, and "Hurricane", a re-telling of the story of the arrest and incarceration of Rubin "Hurricane" Carter in N.J., among a number of other popular songs.

The evangelical Christian thing didn't last that long. Dylan/Zimmerman went back to Talmudic Judaism. Not sure what his claimed religious affiliation is today. From what it sounds like, he doesn't even know.


The adulterous woman story is included in many versions of the Bible, to which it was added (most likely by Roman Catholicism). It is sometimes separated by brackets (to show it wasn't in the original text), and it sometimes appears in different places.

What seems amazing is its author was obviously unfamiliar with the Greek spoken during the early part of the first century, AND unfamiliar with The Law AND unfamiliar with the rest of the Gospel accounts as well, which the story contradicts. Not only is the story not present in earlier texts, but the Greek text doesn't match any of the surrounding verses, breaks up the flow before and after it, and uses words that are simply foreign to the rest of the Gospel.

According to the story, the woman was caught red-handed in the act of adultery. As it takes two to tango, where was the man she was caught with in the act? They both would have been stoned according to The Law, and yet there's no mention of the man. Further proof the story is a fraud.

Of course the story contradicts all of Jesus' previous references to The Law, and that it would never pass away, which is the real reason it was added. That fabricated story basically opened the door, so people could feel like they could get away with anything, including adultery, because "Jesus knows what's in their hearts".


It's a personal favourite. The prologue delivered by Cecil B. DeMille before the beginning of the film is as accurate today as it was when he delivered it over 65 years ago. Definitely worth the watch. Particularly around Passover (after sunset on the 30th of March).


It's an interesting film if you haven't seen it. Cecil B. DeMille's 10 Commandments is one that's been watched many times, while Ben Hur only once all the way through.

Bob is just a Mason.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

According to the story, the woman was caught red-handed in the act of adultery. As it takes two to tango, where was the man she was caught with in the act? They both would have been stoned according to The Law, and yet there's no mention of the man. Further proof the story is a fraud.

John 8:1-12

Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life

The pharisees brought the woman to be stoned after supposedly catching the two of them in the act, but either let the man off the hook or he was one of their buddies present there with them.Then Jesus began to write something on the ground and they began to disperse (John 8:8-9). Is it not possible that he was quoting the Law to them, and they left as they were convicted of their own hypocrisy, as it says in vs9?

That fabricated story basically opened the door, so people could feel like they could get away with anything, including adultery, because "Jesus knows what's in their hearts".

Jesus said "go, and sin no more" (John8:11). Hardly Him endorsing a continuation of the behavior.

Also, if we cut out John 7:53-8:11 we end up a with continuity gap from Nicodemus talking in private with the pharisees to Jesus teaching the pharisees in the temple.

 

[A Freeman]

In case you haven't heard what I think is the best song off Slow Train Coming it's called When You Gonna Wake Up. The lyrics are particularly relevant for today. Also a few old ones fit today pretty good too. A Hard Rain Is Gonna Fall, Masters of War, Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll. About his current religious affiliation: Anything that makes a buck? I remember reading that Ruben Carter turned out to be guilty. Never heard Joker Man. The album John Wesley Harding has a song about Judas Priest. Highway 61 Revisited is my favorite album by him. Don't really pay attention to him anymore. Just the old stuff. All Along the Watchtower: the hour is getting late.

Thank-you. Agreed about the lyrics to "When You Gonna Wake Up" being as relevant today as when the song was written. There's even lines in the lyrics addressing what has happened as a direct result of our failure to enforce The Law against adulterers and politicians/legislators:

Adulterers in churches and pornography in the schools
You got gangsters in power and lawbreakers making rules.


The hour is late indeed. Playtime is over.

 

[A Freeman]

Bob is just a Mason.

Some of the lyrics in some of his songs are interesting nevertheless because of the truth in their message.

 

[A Freeman]

The pharisees brought the woman to be stoned after supposedly catching the two of them in the act, but either let the man off the hook or he was one of their buddies present there with them.

The Law requires both the man and the woman caught in adultery to be put to death, by stoning or any other means available. Without the man, the testimony of any of the witnesses would not be credible (that they caught the woman in the act of adultery) and, according to The Law, anyone found guilty of bearing false witness receives the same punishment they are trying to inflict upon another which, in this case, is death.

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Deuteronomy 19:16-19
19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him [that which is] wrong;
19:17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy [is], shall stand before the "I AM", before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, [if] the witness [be] a false witness, [and] hath testified falsely against his brother;
19:19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.

This is one of at least six reasons we can be certain the story was fabricated and deceitfully added to the Bible later.

Then Jesus began to write something on the ground and they began to disperse (John 8:8-9). Is it not possible that he was quoting the Law to them, and they left as they were convicted of their own hypocrisy, as it says in vs9?

No. Adultery is a capital crime under The Law. If Jesus quoted them The Law on the matter of adultery (Exod. 20:14; Lev. 20:10; Deut. 5:18), then it would make Jesus a hypocrite and a law-breaker to refuse to carry out the sentence for the crime.

This is yet another reason we can be certain the story was fabricated and deceitfully added to the Bible later.

Jesus said "go, and sin no more" (John8:11). Hardly Him endorsing a continuation of the behavior.

You haven't thought this through. If Jesus let the adulteress go, as the story claims, the Jesus would have been hypocritically granting permission to sin to the very same woman He's allegedly telling to go and sin no more.

That phrase was "borrowed" from John 5:14, where Jesus used it to warn the man He healed near the Bethesda pool not to repeat the sins that caused his illness (38 years of sickness endured as punishment for his past sins).

Also, if we cut out John 7:53-8:11 we end up a with continuity gap from Nicodemus talking in private with the pharisees to Jesus teaching the pharisees in the temple.

It's the other way around. The text and language used in John provide for a continuous narrative without the story of the adulterous woman, which doesn't feature Nicodemus at all (and includes 14 words found nowhere else in the Gospel according to John, including the word "scribe"). The addition/insertion of the story of the adulterous woman -- which is not present in earlier manuscripts and thus unquestionably was added to the Bible later -- interrupts the flow of the narrative before and after it.

More on this in a subsequent post, since it is very relative to why following The Law is Life or Death serious, and must serve as the basis for all Scriptural study.

 

[A Freeman]

the added story of the adulterous woman

Please see the following links, in no particular order, regarding the story of the adulterous woman found in the Gospel according to John:-

http://www.bible-researcher.com/adult.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/John-7-53-8-11.html

http://www.bibleodyssey.org/passages/main-articles/woman-caught-in-adultery.aspx


There is no question the story of the adulterous woman was added to the Bible because it was NOT present in the original texts, and only appeared later (hence it was added).

Along with the truth pointed out by Biblical scholars that the story of the adulterous woman was:

1) not present in the original texts of the Gospel according to John;

2) doesn't match the writing style of the rest of the Gospel according to John; and

3) interrupts the flow of the story being told in the verses before and after it,

there are several other reasons we can be CERTAIN it was added later, including:

4) the story contradicts Christ's statement about The Law found in Matthew 5:17-19 and Luke 16:17-18 (i.e. if the story about the adulterous woman happened as we're told, it is calling Christ a liar);

5) the story contradicts itself by claiming only a woman was caught in the act of adultery [it takes two to “tango” and the penalty in The Law is that BOTH the man and the woman caught in the act have committed a capital offence (Lev. 20:10)]; and

6) the story contradicts itself by claiming Jesus let the woman caught in the act of adultery go, while at the same time telling her to “go and sin no more”. If it's really okay to commit adultery, then why tell her to stop doing it? In other words, if there's no penalty for sinning (breaking The Law – 1 John 3:4), then there's no incentive for anyone to stop
sinning/breaking The Law, i.e. stop being a criminal.

The REAL reason the story of the adulterous woman was added was to be used to try to grant people the license to commit all the abominations of the Earth (Rev. 17), even though Christ Himself said The Law would not change in the slightest way (Matt. 5:18) and that we should SIN NO MORE (Matt. 5:48; John 5:14), i.e. do NOT break The Law ever again or we will suffer the consequences (in this lifetime or the next (John 9:1-3). Christ was actually STRICTER about what He considered to be adultery, holding people accountable for their lustful thoughts and for divorcing one another just so they can get married to someone else (see: Matt. 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:17-18).

Before disagreeing with what's been shared, please consider the FACT that today, as a result of our refusal to keep and enforce The Law, adultery has been re-packaged as “having an affair” and is not only dealt with “leniently” under man-made rules, it's encouraged and even glorified. This has caused BILLIONS of broken homes and caused untold amounts of suffering, as children are caught in-between feuding parents, and brought up in an environment that fosters selfishness, infidelity and conflict (hatred
really), instead of love and teamwork to overcome all obstacles, in effect training the children to repeat the same mistakes as their parents.

All because of our individual and collective INSANITY, in thinking we know better than God and refusing to keep and enforce His Law, His Statutes and His Judgements ONLY.

Keeping and enforcing God's Law would END adultery and the suffering that making adultery “legal” has caused. People CAN stop committing adultery (we are not powerless to resist temptation as “Christianity” wrongly teaches), and facing the REAL possibility of being lawfully executed for the CRIME of adultery would provide the NECESSARY incentive for people to do the right thing.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

The Law requires both the man and the woman caught in adultery to be put to death, by stoning or any other means available. Without the man, the testimony of any of the witnesses would not be credible (that they caught the woman in the act of adultery) and, according to The Law, anyone found guilty of bearing false witness receives the same punishment they are trying to inflict upon another which, in this case, is death.

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Deuteronomy 19:16-19
19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him [that which is] wrong;
19:17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy [is], shall stand before the "I AM", before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, [if] the witness [be] a false witness, [and] hath testified falsely against his brother;
19:19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done

Yes, the Law required BOTH of them to be put to death, but scripture tells us that the pharisees were hypocrites and followed the traditions of men, not strictly the Law.

Also, just a extra tidbit of info, scripture specifies stoning as the method of death for adulteresses.

Ezekiel 16:38-40

And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.

39 And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.

40 They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords.

No. Adultery is a capital crime under The Law. If Jesus quoted them The Law on the matter of adultery (Exod. 20:14; Lev. 20:10; Deut. 5:18), then it would make Jesus a hypocrite and a law-breaker to refuse to carry out the sentence for the crime

Yes, the pharisees were trying to make Jesus appear as a liar and hypocrite, when THEY were the liars and hypocrites.
It wouldnt be the only time they tried to trick Jesus.

If Jesus let the adulteress go, as the story claims, the Jesus would have been hypocritically granting permission to sin to the very same woman He's allegedly telling to go and sin no mor

He's not granting permission if He's saying to do it "no more".

But the verses were removed from scripture by church leaders because they made the same claim, that it allowed adultery.

Does John 7:53-8:11 belong in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Does John 7:53-8:11 belong in the Bible? What is the pericope adulterae? Was the story of the woman caught in adultery originally part of the Gospel of John?

www.gotquestions.org

Here is the theory of those who favor inclusion: John wrote the passage just as it appears in the Textus Receptus. But later church leaders deemed the passage morally dangerous—since Jesus forgives the woman, wives might think they could commit adultery and get away with it. So, the church leaders tampered with the Word of God and removed the passage. To leave the passage in, they reasoned, would be to make Jesus seem “soft” on adultery. Later scribes, following the lead of the Holy Spirit, re-inserted the pericope, which should never have been removed in the first place.

It's the other way around. The text and language used in John provide for a continuous narrative without the story of the adulterous woman, which doesn't feature Nicodemus at all (and includes 14 words found nowhere else in the Gospel according to John, including the word "scribe"). The addition/insertion of the story of the adulterous woman -- which is not present in earlier manuscripts and thus unquestionably was added to the Bible later -- interrupts the flow of the narrative before and after it

John 7:45-8:
45 Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?

46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.

47 Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived?

48 Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?

49 But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.

50 Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,)

51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?

52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.

53 And every man went unto his own house.

Ch8
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Nicodemus is featured before the passage in question, towards the end of ch7.

In ch 7, Nicodemus is speaking with the pharisees, and Jesus is not present (7:45 "why have ye not brought him"). Ch7 ends with them leaving and going home. The verses in question begin ch8 and reintroduce Jesus to the temple teaching the pharisees.

How does removing the verses 7:53-8:11 improve the flow of narration? We have Jesus not present during a private meeting to suddenly there teaching. It would go :

52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

But in verse 7:52 Jesus was not present in the room, and in verse 8:12 He is.

There is no question the story of the adulterous woman was added to the Bible because it was NOT present in the original texts, and only appeared later (hence it was added).

The link actually allows the possibility of the church leaders removing the passage, as i quoted earlier in this reply.

Along with the truth pointed out by Biblical scholars that the story of the adulterous woman was:

1) not present in the original texts of the Gospel according to John;

There is no unanimous consensus of "the scholars", and if majority opinion was always correct and dissenting opinions should be silenced wouldn't we be arguing for catholicism? (Im not arguing for catholicism btw, so lets not misunderstand what im saying)

We don't have "original texts". We have a variety of fragments and copies, some which include the verses in question and some which don't. Some which lack these verses also lack other verses which are not up for debate.

Just because sinaiticus and vaticanus omit these verses does not mean they aren't meant to be there. Considering you said in a previous post somewhere that the King James is the most reliable Bible (besides your own translation), i have to say that i am surprised in this matter you favor the alexandrian-inspired modern translations.

interrupts the flow of the story being told in the verses before and after it,

I already addressed this point above.

5) the story contradicts itself by claiming only a woman was caught in the act of adultery [it takes two to “tango” and the penalty in The Law is that BOTH the man and the woman caught in the act have committed a capital offence (Lev. 20:10)]; and

The story doesnt contradict itself, the pharisees were trying to trick Jesus, and He called them out on their hypocrisy.

) the story contradicts itself by claiming Jesus let the woman caught in the act of adultery go, while at the same time telling her to “go and sin no more”. If it's really okay to commit adultery, then why tell her to stop doing it? In other words, if there's no penalty for sinning (breaking The Law – 1 John 3:4), then there's no incentive for anyone to stop
sinning/breaking The Law, i.e. stop being a criminal.

How is it contradictory that it is not ok, yet he let her go but told her to sin no more?

This would mean that we should all be dead, as we have all sinned in the past. Not that we are forgiven for past sins but to not sin more in the future (which is what you teach, if im not mistaken - that God forgives our past sins, but that does not mean we have permission to sin.)

Christ was actually STRICTER about what He considered to be adultery, holding people accountable for their lustful thoughts and for divorcing one another just so they can get married to someone else

Correct.

But would this mean if pagans/atheists have married and divorced multiple times in the past upon becoming Christians/followers of Christ they should renounce their current marriage (as it is adultery under the Law), or to stay in the current marriage and never get divorced or be unfaithful in the future?

This is the problem when applying the sins past to a person who has converted. Does Christ give us a clean slate at the time of conversion or not?

Before disagreeing with what's been shared, please consider the FACT that today, as a result of our refusal to keep and enforce The Law, adultery has been re-packaged as “having an affair” and is not only dealt with “leniently” under man-made rules, it's encouraged and even glorified. This has caused BILLIONS of broken homes and caused untold amounts of suffering, as children are caught in-between feuding parents, and brought up in an environment that fosters selfishness, infidelity and conflict (hatred
really), instead of love and teamwork to overcome all obstacles, in effect training the children to repeat the same mistakes as their parents.

All because of our individual and collective INSANITY, in thinking we know better than God and refusing to keep and enforce His Law, His Statutes and His Judgements ONLY.

Keeping and enforcing God's Law would END adultery and the suffering that making adultery “legal” has caused. People CAN stop committing adultery (we are not powerless to resist temptation as “Christianity” wrongly teaches), and facing the REAL possibility of being lawfully executed for the CRIME of adultery would provide the NECESSARY incentive for people to do the right thing.

I understand, and i do not agree with modern attitudes towards adultery and divorce at all.

However, i disagree that the death penalty would be a deterrent, if that was the case there would be no murder or other serious crimes. I also think that it would lead to a whole lot of orphans and broken homes.

 

[A Freeman]

I understand, and i do not agree with modern attitudes towards adultery and divorce at all.

However, i disagree that the death penalty would be a deterrent, if that was the case there would be no murder or other serious crimes. I also think that it would lead to a whole lot of orphans and broken homes.

Then you are arguing against God and His Perfect Law or, more accurately put, you have been duped into believing you know better than God. Also, it's not the scribes and pharisees that were calling Jesus a hypocrite; it is those who believe and promote the false story of the adulterous woman who are doing that.

That is why you are seeing this upside down and backwards.

Man-made rules do not enforce the death penalty uniformly nor swiftly, with many receiving a life sentence instead, which punishes the victim's families and the rest of society even further, as they wind up footing the bill to feed, clothe and provide shelter for the murderers, sometimes for decades. And even those who receive the death penalty for murder usually are fed, clothed and sheltered for years or decades before the sentence is carried out, again at the expense of the victim's families and the rest of society. That is why there are no prisons according to The Law that God gave us, which justly punishes the criminals rather than unjustly punishing the victims and/or their families and the rest of society.

Only if the death sentence is carried out swiftly and consistently, in accordance with The Law that God gave us, can it be a deterrent. And it absolutely would be a deterrent if carried out exactly as is specified in The Law, in this case saving billions of adults the agony of infidelity and billions of children the pain and suffering of growing up in a broken family.

 

[A Freeman]

As can be seen below, the Scripture is consistent and crystal clear on the subject of adultery, and why it is a capital crime according to The Law.

It should be of interest to those who have been duped by the story of the adulterous woman, which never happened and was very obviously added to the Bible by the Roman Catholic church centuries later, that Christ was actually stricter on the issue.

Please note well how Christ defined adultery, and how Christ emphasized that it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away before the slightest change was made to The Law which, again, lists adultery as a capital crime. Christ's words on the subject are found in the following passages, and follow below in blue.

Matt. 5:27-32; Matt. 15:19-20; Matt. 19:9; Matt. 19:17-18; Mark 7:21-23; Mark 10:11-12; Mark 10:19; Luke 16:17-18; Luke 18:20

Please also note well how many times in the letters of Paul that The Law is quoted as well. Marriage vows are made before God, so anyone breaking that vow (promise) is proving they are a liar, and that their word is meaningless.


Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery [neither personally, nor nationally].

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall SURELY be put to death.

Deuteronomy 5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery [neither personally, nor nationally].

Proverbs 6:32 [But] whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he [that] doeth it destroyeth his own soul.

Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to Judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in [his] wages (James 5:4), the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger [from his right], and fear not Me, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts.

Matthew 5:27-32
5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell-fire.
5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell-fire.
5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 15:19-20
15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness (lies), blasphemies:
15:20 These are [the things] which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Matthew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication (NOT adultery), and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matthew 19:17-18
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou ME good? [there is] none good but One, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments.
19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness (tell lies),

Mark 7:21-23
7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Mark 10:11-12
10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
10:12 And if a woman shall be put away by her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Mark 10:19 Thou knowest the COMMANDments, Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Luke 16:17-18
16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of The Law and Prophecy to fail.
16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from [her] husband committeth adultery.

Luke 18:20 Thou knowest the COMMANDments, Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

James 2:11 For He that said, Do NOT commit adultery, said also, Do not murder. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou murder, thou art become a transgressor of The Law.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the ENEMY of God.

Galatians 5:19-21
5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
5:20 Idolatry, pharmacy, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall NOT inherit The Kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit The Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind (sodomites/homosexuals),
6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit The Kingdom of God.

Romans 7:2-3
7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by The Law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from The Law of [her] husband.
7:3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Romans 13:8-10
13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled The Law.
13:9 For this, Thou shalt NOT commit adultery, Thou shalt not murder, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness (lie), Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] ANY other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as [or more than] thyself.
13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of The Law.

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with Fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Marriage Guidance

 

[Floridafoot]

I usually do not comment on these threads. AFreeman I loved your God at eventide posts. I admire how much thought and devotion you put into your pursuit of a close relationship with the Father. I will say, I respectfully disagree with your approach in regard to cherry picking the Scripture. What God has revealed to me in my fervent desire to know and understand Him is the law was created to glorify His name and to show mankind what His expectations are. Of course every single human being should strive to fulfill this law everyday. But God clearly states that no man is innocent. We all have broken the law and will again. That's why the sacrifices of the OT were necessary. That's why practicing Jewish folks today are desperate to rebuild the temple. Of course this will be done as is stated in the scripture. It will be desecrated, but I digress. People cannot be saved by works. No matter how much a person strives to be perfect according to the law, the Father knows the heart. That's why repentance is what He seeks. I believe it was you that posted one time "pride is concerned with being right, humility is concerned with what is right". I love that!
I believe in the Father's plan for us. He knew we could never fulfill the law. It was created as a reminder that we will always fall short of the glory of God and that we need to seek His mercy. It is important to help guide others with the love and long suffering patience He continues to show us. The whole NT pretty much backs this up. This doesn't mean it's ok to live in sin. Doesn't mean anything goes. I really feel this goes back to how God says He knows the heart. He knows when you're truly making an effort and when you are not. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ was integral to His divine plan for redemption. I don't have faith in myself. I have faith in God. If the punishments of the OT were still practiced I would not be here today. Born again. A new person fighting tooth and nail to live His law. Teaching my children about His word and His truth. I pray you find room in your heart to forgive as He has forgiven. By the way I apologize I am not able to cite scripture like you. You're great at that. But i have read and do study on it everyday. Please be careful and take heed. Even the most devout and studious can be deceived. God bless you and everyone in this thread striving to know the Lord.

 

[A Freeman]

I usually do not comment on these threads. AFreeman I loved your God at eventide posts.

It was nice to be able to share them with others.

I admire how much thought and devotion you put into your pursuit of a close relationship with the Father. I will say, I respectfully disagree with your approach in regard to cherry picking the Scripture.

Thank-you. What specifically makes you believe that the Scripture is being cherry-picked please? Does the previous post not provide virtually all of the citations in Scripture concerning adultery for everyone’s consideration? From the Scripture, is it not clear how both Father and Christ view that crime, as well as Their Perfect Solution to prevent it?

What God has revealed to me in my fervent desire to know and understand Him is the law was created to glorify His name and to show mankind what His expectations are.

Agreed. And Father’s Expectations are NEVER unrealistic, wouldn’t you agree?

Of course every single human being should strive to fulfill this law everyday.

Agreed.

But God clearly states that no man is innocent. We all have broken the law

Agreed. That is what needs to stop (the sinning/breaking of The Law).

and will again.

Why? As every crime detailed in The Law is a form of theft, are you claiming we are somehow incapable of learning not to steal? Do we not all have to bear our own cross to follow Christ, i.e. begin taking personal responsibility for our own actions (Matt. 10:38, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:26-27, Gal. 2:20, Sura 6:162, Sura 92:18-21)?

That's why the sacrifices of the OT were necessary.

The OT sacrifices for sin were substitute animal sacrifices, which foreshadowed “self” sacrifice (sacrificing the selfish will of the human animal).

As people’s wealth and livelihood in an agrarian based society depended upon the strength and quality of their livestock, having to give up their very best (unblemished) breeding stock to atone for their sins provided ample incentive for people to learn to avoid sinning/breaking The Law (i.e. committing crimes).

But people are hard-hearted (Ezek. 11:17-21), and memories are short, so we forgot about Father and His Law (Hos. 4:6) and did whatever we thought was right (Deut. 12:8), instead of what Father COMMANDED us to do for our own benefit (Deut. 30:15-20). And to what end? We have fallen further and further away from God every generation (Matt. 12:39-40; Luke 18:8; 2 Thess. 2:3).

The ordinance of substitute animal sacrifice was replaced with “self” sacrifice at the cross (Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:14), the latter of which is learning to see what the human is scheming (its thoughts, as they form in the mind), and stop it from doing its own selfish will, so that Father’s Will can be done here on earth, as it is done in heaven.

Every criminal action begins with a thought. And just as we can strengthen the body through physical exercise, we can and must learn to strengthen the mind spiritually, which Father has promised to help us do. So discipline and obedience are the key, both to show Christ we are grateful for His Sacrifice, and also to clean our own temple/house, to make it fit for Father to dwell there (2 Cor. 6:14-18).

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

That's why practicing Jewish folks today are desperate to rebuild the temple. Of course this will be done as is stated in the scripture. It will be desecrated, but I digress.

They are, as Christ described them, “the blind leading the blind” (Matt. 15:13-14), which is why all of their attempts to go backwards – to build another temple with human hands (after Father destroyed the first two – see: Acts 7:48, 17:24), and to go back to animal sacrifices – will NOT be successful.

People cannot be saved by works.

Did Christ not tell us that we will all be judged according to our works (Matt. 16:27; Rev. 20:12-15)? Were we not created in Christ to DO good works (Eph. 2:8-10)?

No matter how much a person strives to be perfect according to the law, the Father knows the heart.

Agreed (Jer. 17:9). Isn’t that why Father has promised to help those who help themselves to His Blessings by writing His Law into their hearts and minds (Jer. 31:31-34; Heb. 8:7-12; Heb. 10:16-17)? How else, other than through discipline and obedience, could we possibly show Father and His Christ our love and gratitude for everything They have done?

That's why repentance is what He seeks.

Exactly. And what is repentance? Is true repentance not ceasing to do evil/sin/break The Law (1 John 3:4-10)?

I believe it was you that posted one time "pride is concerned with being right, humility is concerned with what is right". I love that!

Yep. Likewise. And that’s exactly the reason for this thread, as well as the rest of what is personally posted: to share with others what Father has told us IS right (sow the seed of truth). The rest is up to Father and the reader.

I believe in the Father's plan for us.

Likewise. He knows what is best for us, and is The Best Planner, and is just and fair in ALL matters, as is His Perfect Law.

He knew we could never fulfill the law.

Why would anyone believe that our All-Knowing, Perfect, Just, Fair, Loving and Gracious Father and Creator gave us a Law that we allegedly cannot keep? Would any loving parent ever ask their children to do something they knew they were incapable of doing, and then punish them when they couldn't do it? Please think about that very carefully.

The fault has always been with us for exercising our own free-will to listen to and obey Satan (to do evil) rather than listen to and obey God (to do good). It has NEVER been with the Covenants that Father has given us, Both of which are based on keeping The Law.

Hebrews 8:7-12
8:7 For IF that first [Covenant] had been [followed] faultlessly, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8:8 For finding fault WITH THEM, He saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the House of Israel [ten "Lost" tribes] and with the House of Judah:
8:9 Not according to The Covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued NOT in My Covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord (Hos. 4:6).
8:10 For THIS [is] The Covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My Laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people:
8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.
8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

It was created as a reminder that we will always fall short of the glory of God and that we need to seek His mercy. It is important to help guide others with the love and long suffering patience He continues to show us. The whole NT pretty much backs this up.

How so? Did Christ not specifically warn us that The Law would NEVER pass away and that anyone who continues to break The Law/Commandments of God, and teach others to do so, is the lowest of the low in Father’s Eyes (Matt. 5:17-20; Luke 16:17-18)?

This doesn't mean it's ok to live in sin. Doesn't mean anything goes.

How would one not continue living in sin unless they start keeping The Law and never look back? Sin is literally the transgression (breaking) of The Law, is it not?

I really feel this goes back to how God says He knows the heart. He knows when you're truly making an effort and when you are not.

Don’t the actions of each individual tell what is in their heart (Matt. 7:16-20)?

The sacrifice of Jesus Christ was integral to His divine plan for redemption.

Agreed. And Christ’s Sacrifice, the doing Father’s Will up to and including the death of the human body, should serve as THE Example for all of us, shouldn’t it (John 14:6)?

I don't have faith in myself. I have faith in God.

Can any of us truly claim to have faith (trust) in God, while disobeying His Commands? Is there really such a thing as faith without good (Godly) works (James 2:17-26)?

If the punishments of the OT were still practiced I would not be here today.

NONE of us would still be here. That is exactly what MUST change, and that change MUST begin within (inside) each of us.

What most seem to forget is that one of the many blessings that Father promises as a reward for returning to and keeping His Law, is that He will fight our battles for us. Given the storm of unprecedented evil that we are currently facing – the moral decay, the lethal injection program and WW3, which has already started – it should be self-evident that we are in desperate need of Father’s Help right now. Hopefully awakening to that realization, that we cannot do this ourselves, will provide the faithful with the motivation to make the necessary changes within, as Father has Commanded us to do for our own benefit.

Born again. A new person fighting tooth and nail to live His law. Teaching my children about His word and His truth.

As we all should be doing, to benefit from Father’s Blessings, exactly as He has promised.

I pray you find room in your heart to forgive as He has forgiven.

No one needs my forgiveness, nor is there anything for me to forgive. Any personal wrongs or attacks (real or perceived) that anyone has ever done to me personally are long ago forgiven.

What everyone needs is Father’s forgiveness, and the ONLY Way for them to have that is to remember and return to keeping The Law while they still have time (Mal. 4). That is the purpose for sharing with others what Father and His Christ have told us we NEED to do. The rest is up to each individual and Father, of course (Matt. 11:27-28). They will either be led to Christ, Who is here right now, and has been since 1948, or they will continue to be led by Satan, through their “self”. The choice, as always, is up to each of us, and is NEVER personal.

By the way I apologize I am not able to cite scripture like you. You're great at that. But i have read and do study on it everyday.

No worries. Thank-you. That’s what each of us need to be doing everyday.

Please be careful and take heed. Even the most devout and studious can be deceived. God bless you and everyone in this thread striving to know the Lord.

Thank-you. Likewise.

 

[Floridafoot]

I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post. First, I say I pray for you to forgive, not because I need your forgiveness or anyone else, but because we are told to be forgiving in the Scriptures. I do not have the specific verses committed to memory. I believe the parable of the man who owed the king a debt. He was forgiven of his debt but then proceeds to go shake down the others who owed him. The king, who was once merciful, was furious. He took everything from him and locked him up. Second, I say we should forgive because it is a heavy burden on the heart to carry condemnation for others. It's just tough on a person emotionally and spiritually and can give the adversary a way in. I agree with your citations. Jesus did say to keep the law absolutely. The Father does want us to keep the law absolutely. And you did agree that God says we are all guilty of breaking His divine law. I believe there was a second covenant established with Jesus Christ's sacrifice. I know as a parent I make rules for my children, but they won't always obey. I have punishments I dole out when need be. Now, I realize God's punishments include death, of course I don't have that authority. I believe only God has the authority to take a life. He says vengeance is His to hand out. Jesus said he didn't come to destroy the law but fulfill it. Why would we need the Messiah to come to fulfill the law if we could do it ourselves?
Oh, and by cherry picking I was referring to you saying the story of the adulteress woman was added on by the Catholics. I mean, seems like a slippery slope there. One can make the Bible say anything they want by claiming this and that is fake. I've heard just about the whole book's authenticity being contested with "evidence" to support the claim.
I don't believe once you are changed and born again of the Spirit you should go back to the way you were. In fact, I have found that now that I am filled with the spirit I enjoy almost nothing I used to enjoy. It has profoundly changed me on every level. And as a result, yes my actions reflect this change. But I do still slip up. Nothing like before of course. But I have had times where I have sinned. Not adultery or robbery, but I know I haven't been perfect. When I feel this way I repent, I thank God for His mercy. I pick myself up (just metaphorically these days) dust myself off and carry on fighting the fight. I believe with the crucification of the Messiah the covenant changed. The law still stands as the example always. I agree when the law is broken there are punishments doled out. I just think based on what's been revealed to me through Scripture that the Father is the one who does the punishing. Also, I agree the breaking of the law needs to stop. I wish people would follow God's way because we would live in paradise. But right now the evil one is in control. He's making His big move. And people are falling away just as predicted in the Scripture. There aren't enough stones to throw on this earth these days, my friend. That's why we're waiting on the King's return.

 

[Floridafoot]

I have to clarify. The evil one is in control only because God is allowing this to be. To fulfill His will and divine plan.

 

[Maldarker]

Yes, the Law required BOTH of them to be put to death, but scripture tells us that the pharisees were hypocrites and followed the traditions of men, not strictly the Law.

Also, just a extra tidbit of info, scripture specifies stoning as the method of death for adulteresses.

Ezekiel 16:38-40

And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.

39 And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.

40 They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords.


Yes, the pharisees were trying to make Jesus appear as a liar and hypocrite, when THEY were the liars and hypocrites.
It wouldnt be the only time they tried to trick Jesus.

He's not granting permission if He's saying to do it "no more".

But the verses were removed from scripture by church leaders because they made the same claim, that it allowed adultery.

Does John 7:53-8:11 belong in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Does John 7:53-8:11 belong in the Bible? What is the pericope adulterae? Was the story of the woman caught in adultery originally part of the Gospel of John?

www.gotquestions.org

Nicodemus is featured before the passage in question, towards the end of ch7.

In ch 7, Nicodemus is speaking with the pharisees, and Jesus is not present (7:45 "why have ye not brought him"). Ch7 ends with them leaving and going home. The verses in question begin ch8 and reintroduce Jesus to the temple teaching the pharisees.

How does removing the verses 7:53-8:11 improve the flow of narration? We have Jesus not present during a private meeting to suddenly there teaching. It would go :

52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

But in verse 7:52 Jesus was not present in the room, and in verse 8:12 He is.



The link actually allows the possibility of the church leaders removing the passage, as i quoted earlier in this reply.


There is no unanimous consensus of "the scholars", and if majority opinion was always correct and dissenting opinions should be silenced wouldn't we be arguing for catholicism? (Im not arguing for catholicism btw, so lets not misunderstand what im saying)

We don't have "original texts". We have a variety of fragments and copies, some which include the verses in question and some which don't. Some which lack these verses also lack other verses which are not up for debate.

Just because sinaiticus and vaticanus omit these verses does not mean they aren't meant to be there. Considering you said in a previous post somewhere that the King James is the most reliable Bible (besides your own translation), i have to say that i am surprised in this matter you favor the alexandrian-inspired modern translations.


I already addressed this point above.

The story doesnt contradict itself, the pharisees were trying to trick Jesus, and He called them out on their hypocrisy.


How is it contradictory that it is not ok, yet he let her go but told her to sin no more?

This would mean that we should all be dead, as we have all sinned in the past. Not that we are forgiven for past sins but to not sin more in the future (which is what you teach, if im not mistaken - that God forgives our past sins, but that does not mean we have permission to sin.)


Correct.

But would this mean if pagans/atheists have married and divorced multiple times in the past upon becoming Christians/followers of Christ they should renounce their current marriage (as it is adultery under the Law), or to stay in the current marriage and never get divorced or be unfaithful in the future?

This is the problem when applying the sins past to a person who has converted. Does Christ give us a clean slate at the time of conversion or not?


I understand, and i do not agree with modern attitudes towards adultery and divorce at all.

However, i disagree that the death penalty would be a deterrent, if that was the case there would be no murder or other serious crimes. I also think that it would lead to a whole lot of orphans and broken homes.

He uses what fits his narrative. Pull on one string and it starts to unravel.