Why Do You Think Jesus Is The Son Of God?

[Red Sky at Morning]

We don't deny him to be the Messiah. We hold him to be very special. We just don't believe that God Begets any son or daughter.

That's common to mere mortals. And saying things like this can give rise to ambiguous thoughts for people that don't know better.

I think @Camidria popped this one up for @kilotune - I don't think many people who look into the historical evidence for Jesus subscribe to the 'Jesus Myth' camp for very long.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@God_Is_Formless - it's interesting to hear your perspectives as well. I know we don't quite see eye to eye but I like you and you are genuine. God bless.

 

[God_Is_Formless]

@God_Is_Formless - it's interesting to hear your perspectives as well. I know we don't quite see eye to eye but I like you and you are genuine. God bless.

Thanks and i tend to think the same of you and i like you too.

Amen and God Bless you too

 

[kilotune]

God_Is_Formless, See ya! Hey we're not far from each other. I'm in Mauritius.

God Bless
who would have thought it. life can be funny at time. do you speak Creole?
The autocorrect on this site is terrible though.

 

[kilotune]

Flavius Josephus account is a well known fraud

 

[Karlysymon]

Yes, I apologize I should have been more specific, especially seeing that there are big differences in the way we understand biblical verses, for example Jesus’ saying: “Why call me good? There is none good but God.” Or when the devil tempted Jesus to worship him and Jesus said, “Away from me, Satan! … “For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve” Him only.”

And then of course there is the matter of what it means to believe in something. If I say I believe verses or passages, I only mean that they have truth in them, not that I have faith in them. And this is related to verses that talk about the nature of our Creator and how we are to submit to His will (worship Him). As for historical accounts in the Bible that are not mentioned in the Quran or do not contradict what is mentioned in the Quran, I don’t believe or disbelieve them.

You had asked where is Muhammad foretold in the Bible aside from the verses already mentioned? Prophet Moses foretold the coming of both Jesus and Muhammad in Deuteronomy 33 ... And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. 2 And he said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

God willing I will start another thread to continue this discussion and reply you about the place of Abraham’s test that you asked about in another post. I don’t want to derail Red’s thread any further. Peace.

Yes, i now understand that different texts mean different things to you as a muslim. Thank you for your reply and take all the time you need.

 

[Karlysymon]

No problem. Chronologically, Paul's letters were the first to be written for the NT canon and everything that followed was written/revised/ interpreted/made-up to be in line with his theology... which is why it is no surprise to me that, instead of saying you still have Jesus' teachings, Jesus' sayings, Jesus' words, you said Peter, James and John ... but I know, the message of the cross (Paul's gospel) is not the message that Jesus taught.

I re-read your earlier question to me about the significance of Abraham's sacrifice and your follow up reply and realized there is a misunderstanding so insha'Allah, when I can write a lengthier response I'll address it then. And just to make something else clear Sister, I don't "believe anything the Bible says as long as it doesn't contradict the Qur'an". Not sure how you came to that conclusion unless you misunderstood what I wrote concerning it. Whatever passages/verses in the Bible that are in line with Islam - namely those having to do with Who God is and how we are to worship Him, I accept them as true. This is the core message of all of God's prophets - only one God. Worship Him Alone and don't worship false gods. Whatever contradicts that, I consider to be nothing but falsehood and the lying pen of scribes.

The Pickthall and Yusuf Ali translations both use Elizabethan English. YA includes a copious amount of footnotes - many not related to Islam - that some readers may find enriching. Personally, I prefer the Muhsin Khan translation because the translators include hadiths in the footnotes as well as exegesis from the earliest and leading exegetes of the Quran. Arabic is a very rich language and many words have multiple shades of meanings that may not be conveyed in a translation, which is why I prefer to have the explanation from the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad as provided in Muhsin Khan. That being said, they also transliterate many Islamic terms in the translation so a non-Muslim would probably have a difficult time understanding it. God willing, you will find a translation that resonates with you and that conveys the English meanings of the language of the Quran as close as possible. Peace.

Please pardon the delayed response (you don't have to reply seeing as there is already 3 pages in between). If iam to run with your line of reasoning, i take it that the visions of the future, shown to apostle John, that show a wounded Christ, were all made up or edited to match Paul's theology.

Revelation 1:7
‘Look, He is coming with the clouds,’ and ‘every eye will see Him, even those who PIERCED Him’; and all peoples on earth ‘will
mourn because of Him.’

The Throne-room scenes [chap 5:6,9]

Then I saw a Lamb,looking as if it had been slain, standing at the centre of the throne, encircled by
the four living creatures and the elders.....
And they sang a new song:
‘You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were
SLAIN, and with your BLOOD you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation."

This is just a handful of countless verses in just one book.

 

[God_Is_Formless]

who would have thought it. life can be funny at time. do you speak Creole?
The autocorrect on this site is terrible though.

Yes i do, thank God. You too i presume? By autocorrect you must mean the red underline thingy. Don't take notice, it's nothing really.

Are you originally from Seychelles? God Bless

 

[Camidria]

Flavius Josephus account is a well known fraud

Wikipedia:
Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 of the Antiquities to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James"[12] and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity.[13][1][2][14][15][16]

Almost all modern scholars consider the reference in Book 18, Chapter 5, 2 of the Antiquities to the imprisonment and death of John the Baptist also to be authentic and not a Christian interpolation.[17][18][19]

The references found in Antiquities have no parallel texts in the other work by Josephus such as The Jewish War, written 20 years earlier, but some scholars have provided explanations for their absence.[20] A number of variations exist between the statements by Josephus regarding the deaths of James and John the Baptist and the New Testament accounts.[17][21] Scholars generally view these variations as indications that the Josephus passages are not interpolations, for a Christian interpolator would have made them correspond to the New Testament accounts, not differ from them.[17][22][21]

Answers in Genesis:
"In summary, Josephus is an eminently important and helpful source for gathering details about New Testament times, but Christians should be careful not to read him as an apologist for Christianity or to rely upon him too heavily. Nor should they be ignorant of his bias in favor of Judaism and his willingness to deliberately rewrite Old Testament narratives to provide a more flattering picture of the Jewish heritage."

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-history/is-josephus-reliable/

 

[kilotune]

"God_Is_Formless,"]Yes i do, thank God. You too i presume? By autocorrect you must mean the red underline thingy. Don't take notice, it's nothing really.

Are you originally from Seychelles? God Bless
yes i am a seychellois. thanks for the advice about ignoring the red underline thingy. was driving me crazy.

 

[kilotune]

please do not quote wickedpedia as a source of confirmation. it is a well-known Illuminati operation and it is used to maintain the status quo.

 

[kilotune]

god is formless would like to visit Mauritius one day. my aunt is a regular visitor there as are lots of Seychellois. I heard it gotten a bit expensive now though

 

[God_Is_Formless]

god is formless would like to visit Mauritius one day. my aunt is a regular visitor there as are lots of Seychellois. I heard it gotten a bit expensive now though

You're welcome to. God Willing, you'll be visiting me soon enough then. Just let me know when you do.

God Bless

 

[grateful servant]

God isn't done with Nabeel, he will get cured from cancer and bring all glory to KING JESUS. This two guy is a perfect duo that will shineth the light into darkness. Amen

Nabil helps disprove the trinity...

 

[Artful Revealer]

Flavius Josephus account is a well known fraud

That's not true at all. Give us the references of Josephus to Jesus and your arguments why they're fraudulous, please.

Also, Wikipedia most of the time isn't the source. It references to other sources. It has been found to have a high rating of reliability when compared to the Encyclopedia Brittanica. And the llluminati have ceased to exist in 1785. To suggest that it is a control mechanism used by them is quite ridiculous, not to mention that it is editable by anonymous users, meaning anyone can contribute. The good thing is, not everyone will contribute because not everyone gives a f*** about the authenticity of a 1st-century Jewish-Roman historian, only cognoscentes and aficionados.

That said, there's dozens of scriptures about Jesus that are not in the Bible, so one does start to question the quality of your decade-long research.

 

[kilotune]

That said, there's dozens of scriptures about Jesus that are not in the Bible, so one does start to question the quality of your decade-long research.
Scripture written by Christian who was not alive during the time that Jesus is supposed to have lived. so at best second hand. plus you cannot use scripture as evidence of his existence. obviously, a Christian will say he existed. where is the evidence from non-Christian source? this is supposedly the most unique individual to have walked the earth. he raised the dead, walk on water, turns water into wine yet there is no independent record of his existence in a time where meticulous record keeping was de riguer. his story existed in many forms well before his time. Mithra and Horus being two example. you have no idea what the Illuminati is if you think it ceases to exist 1785.the Illuminati is far more than a secret society from Bavaria and can trace its origin in the mysteries school of the ancient world. as for wickedpedia, again you have no idea what it really is. afterall does it not say that darwinism is correct? Do you accept the ridiculous concept of darwism as correct?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

This information I came across yesterday needs no further explanation from me...

 

[Violette]

The Bible is the infallible word of God that He provided for us to receive instruction and understanding. I believe Jesus is the Son of God simply because He claimed to be multiple times. Jesus would have to have been a delusional liar if He wasn't who He claimed to be. Jesus was and is a respected historical figure, not a crazy liar determined to be murdered without reason.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

That said, there's dozens of scriptures about Jesus that are not in the Bible, so one does start to question the quality of your decade-long research.
Scripture written by Christian who was not alive during the time that Jesus is supposed to have lived. so at best second hand. plus you cannot use scripture as evidence of his existence. obviously, a Christian will say he existed. where is the evidence from non-Christian source? this is supposedly the most unique individual to have walked the earth. he raised the dead, walk on water, turns water into wine yet there is no independent record of his existence in a time where meticulous record keeping was de riguer. his story existed in many forms well before his time. Mithra and Horus being two example. you have no idea what the Illuminati is if you think it ceases to exist 1785.the Illuminati is far more than a secret society from Bavaria and can trace its origin in the mysteries school of the ancient world. as for wickedpedia, again you have no idea what it really is. afterall does it not say that darwinism is correct? Do you accept the ridiculous concept of darwism as correct?

Your comments reveal to me that whatever books you have included in your research, they have not included "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel or "The Authenticity of the New Testament : The Gospels" by Bill Cooper.

Some have doubts but wants to find evidence, others do not wish for evidence to exist as doubt is also a front for a deeper level rejection of Jesus.

 

[Violette]

That said, there's dozens of scriptures about Jesus that are not in the Bible, so one does start to question the quality of your decade-long research.
Scripture written by Christian who was not alive during the time that Jesus is supposed to have lived. so at best second hand. plus you cannot use scripture as evidence of his existence. obviously, a Christian will say he existed. where is the evidence from non-Christian source? this is supposedly the most unique individual to have walked the earth. he raised the dead, walk on water, turns water into wine yet there is no independent record of his existence in a time where meticulous record keeping was de riguer. his story existed in many forms well before his time. Mithra and Horus being two example. you have no idea what the Illuminati is if you think it ceases to exist 1785.the Illuminati is far more than a secret society from Bavaria and can trace its origin in the mysteries school of the ancient world. as for wickedpedia, again you have no idea what it really is. afterall does it not say that darwinism is correct? Do you accept the ridiculous concept of darwism as correct?

Mithra and Horus are poor examples, neither are similar to Christ. I'm too tired to give a thorough explanation but I do suggest these websites or just simply research each individual and you will see that they aren't similar at all.
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/is-jesus-simply-a-retelling-of-the-mithras-mythology/
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/is-jesus-simply-a-retelling-of-the-horus-myth/