Abayas Banned In France Controversy Could Mini Skirts Be Next?

[Haich]

Being a man, I'll take a second look at a girl who shows something compared to one who shows nothing. This is why we are told to lower our gaze and a 2nd look is a sin. The Quran says not to go near zina and it all starts with a look.

So yes. The way a women dresses has a large effect on r*pe statistics. Especially in the west. The image i provided above clearly shows that.
Is it the only factor? No, but its a major one.

don’t you think zina and r*pe are different? I get your point but I can’t help but think that the average man checking out a woman with her goods on display isn’t thinking of attacking her and raping her. Raping has a very disturbing component to it where a man lusts after the power and dominance he has over a helpless victim. The psychological component to r*pe I think makes a case that one who wants to commit r*pe is only after a helpless victim at an opportunistic time, regardless of what they’re wearing. I could be wrong, I’m just going on what I know from reading psychology literature.

I do however totally agree that modesty lessens Zina by ten fold, as does the eradication of porn but we all know that won’t ever happen.

 

[Daze]

don’t you think zina and r*pe are different? I get your point but I can’t help but think that the average man checking out a woman with her goods on display isn’t thinking of attacking her and raping her. Raping has a very disturbing component to it where a man lusts after the power and dominance he has over a helpless victim. The psychological component to r*pe I think makes a case that one who wants to commit r*pe is only after a helpless victim at an opportunistic time, regardless of what they’re wearing. I could be wrong, I’m just going on what I know from reading psychology literature.

I do however totally agree that modesty lessens Zina by ten fold, as does the eradication of porn but we all know that won’t ever happen.

Yes, zina and r*pe are different as one lacks consent. But we live in a secular / atheistic world. I grew up in the US. Wanna know how many people will tell you "no" means "yes"? Theres alot of programming out there that enforces this narrative. I remember "learning this" in school as a teenager.

I think the issue is we live in different worlds. While you're in the UK I'm in the US and we are a few years ahead of you in degeneracy.

Sides, I'm telling you how a man thinks. I'm sure 90-95% of men will agree with me on this. It all starts with a look and the average man will turn his head for a girl on the beach before he will for one in niqab. But this is a good thing as the later = your safety.

 

[Daze]

That is your opinion and you are certainly welcome to it. Have an excellent day.

Its not opinion. Its literally what you've said. Jesus did not tell the unbelievers to cover. Why? You tell me. Favoritism?

I mean the prophet Muhammad literally cried when people died outside of Islam because he knew it meant an eternity of torment. But you're telling me my prophet Jesus never bothered to tell half of mankind to cover?.. because he wanted them to suffer? Idk, whats the angle here.

Lets say he never told them. Fine. Why not?

 

[Lurking009]

Its not opinion. Its literally what you've said. Jesus did not tell the unbelievers to cover. Why? You tell me. Favoritism?

I mean the prophet Muhammad literally cried when people died outside of Islam because he knew it meant an eternity of torment. But you're telling me my prophet Jesus never bothered to tell half of mankind to cover?.. because he wanted them to suffer? Idk, whats the angle here.

Lets say he never told them. Fine. Why not?

This is already explained in post #74. If you need to tell lies to promote and defend islam, that's a very sad thing

 

[Daze]

This is already explained in post #74.

I guess you're incapable of putting it in simplistic terms like "Jesus won't tell you this truth because ... "

If you're paying attention to the banter between me and sister Haich, I imagine because he wants them to get raped? As this is literally what we are talking about.

Of course i know Jesus told every man, women and child he came across what God advised him to. But we're playing off of your narrative here.

 

[Lurking009]

I guess you're incapable of putting it in simplistic terms like "Jesus won't tell you this truth because ... "

If you're paying attention to the banter between me and sister Haich, I imagine because he wants them to get raped? As this is literally what we are talking about.

Of course i know Jesus told every man, women and child he came across what God advised him to. But we're playing off of your narrative here.

Post #74 was simple and to the point. All you're doing now is avoiding the questions and scriptures presented to you in that post while creating a diversion away from it with fallacious arguments about Jesus showing favoritism because He didn't force a dress code on unbelievers.

But you already know that.

 

[Daze]

Post #74 was simple and to the point.

Really? Cause i seen a wall of text, 80% bible verses.

Lets not forget you are trying to tell me a prophet of God never told half of mankind that they need to do what God has sent down.
Never have I heard of a prophet of God not advising ALL of the people.

Can you not dumb it down and tell us all WHY?

As they say on reddit. Explain it to me like I'm 5 years old.

 

[Lurking009]

Really? Cause i seen a wall of text, 80% bible verses.

Lets not forget you are trying to tell me a prophet of God never told half of mankind that they need to do what God has sent down.
Never have I heard of a prophet of God not advising ALL of the people.

Can you not dumb it down and tell us all WHY?

As they say on reddit. Explain it to me like I'm 5 years old.

Post #74:

Do you have scriptural examples of Jesus preaching a dress code to unbelievers or not? It's a simple yes or no question.

Salvation isn't based on a dress code. Dressing modestly will not save a single soul, hence a dress code is a moot point for unbelievers. Jesus Christ calls unbelievers to Himself as they are - physically, emotionally, and spiritually broken and in sin. He does not put requirements and burdens upon those in need before they can hear the gospel and come to faith. If you're in rags or riches - it does not matter. Just come, hear and accept the gospel message, and be saved eternally. It's the message of love Jesus has for the lost -

Matthew 11:28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is comfortable, and My burden is light.”

Romans 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Eph 2:4 But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions – it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages He might show the incomparable riches of His grace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Mark 2:15 And it happened that He was reclining at the table in his house, and many tax collectors and sinners were dining with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many of them, and they were following Him. 16 When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that He was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they said to His disciples, “Why is He eating with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 And hearing this, Jesus *said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

_______________________

If you cannot comprehend the love of Christ for the lost, I can't help you.

 

[Aazaad]

Should people from foreign countries adapt to the western dress code if they want to be accepted in society?

Overrated.
It's rather sad that people, particuarly religious/conservative minded ones, put to so much faith in the education systems. It's one thing to say wether they're effective at educating, but to rely on them to teach kids everything is just dumb.

@polymoog you didn't look hard enouh.

And while I do condemn Islamo"phobia", the answer is not mass immigration, no matter where from/to. That only leads to more "phobia".

 

[Daze]

Post #74:

Do you have scriptural examples of Jesus preaching a dress code to unbelievers or not? It's a simple yes or no question.

Salvation isn't based on a dress code. Dressing modestly will not save a single soul, hence a dress code is a moot point for unbelievers. Jesus Christ calls unbelievers to Himself as they are - physically, emotionally, and spiritually broken and in sin. He does not put requirements and burdens upon those in need before they can hear the gospel and come to faith. If you're in rags or riches - it does not matter. Just come, hear and accept the gospel message, and be saved eternally. It's the message of love Jesus has for the lost -

Matthew 11:28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is comfortable, and My burden is light.”

Romans 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Eph 2:4 But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions – it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages He might show the incomparable riches of His grace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Mark 2:15 And it happened that He was reclining at the table in his house, and many tax collectors and sinners were dining with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many of them, and they were following Him. 16 When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that He was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they said to His disciples, “Why is He eating with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 And hearing this, Jesus *said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

_______________________

If you cannot comprehend the love of Christ for the lost, I can't help you.

See, block of text and all of its the Bible. You can't put it into your own words? Why do you keep proving my point that what you are saying is indefensible and simply unbecoming of a prophet of God?

To their last breath, every single prophet of God, called to God, to ALL of mankind.

This is INCREDIBLY obvious. Idk why you keep saying the opposite.

Here, let me explain it with a wall of text. (eye roll)

Its alot like the trinity. Needs a ton of mental gymnastics to sell. Doesn't have a simple answer because it only makes sense in your head.

Peace.

 

[Lurking009]

See, block of text and all of its the Bible. You can't put it into your own words?

Are you being obtuse - I think so. The absurdly enlarged and bolded text in my own words explained why Jesus came to preach the gospel message and not a dress code to the unbelievers, supported by scripture. You're not hurting anyone but yourself by playing this game.

 

[Daze]

Are you being obtuse - I think so. The absurdly enlarged and bolded text in my own words explained why Jesus came to preach the gospel message and not a dress code to the unbelievers, supported by scripture. You're not hurting anyone but yourself by playing this game.

You still have not provided me a simple answer that a 5 year old can understand and idk why you've made like 10 replies on this.

Your Jesus want's to see people in hell because he withheld information from them. Literally what you're saying.

Lets leave it at that because we are accomplishing nothing here.

 

[Lurking009]

Your Jesus want's to see people in hell because he withheld information from them. Literally what you're saying.

And there it is. This is really the crux of your whole argument in a nutshell here and everywhere else on this forum. You will twist, lie and pervert the words of Christians in any discussion of Christianity in order to promote and defend islam.

Every.
Single.
Time.

If you need to lie and deceive in order to make your religion 'right', maybe you should rethink your religion.

 

[Aazaad]

And there's a clear lack of understanding here. @Lurking009 just fyi, a Muslim can't not believe in Jesus (or Moses or...). @Daze I think you have to be more clear here. Sorry for acting as a moderator, remove if necessary.

 

[Daze]

And there it is. This is really the crux of your whole argument in a nutshell here and everywhere else on this forum. You will twist, lie and pervert the words of Christians in any discussion of Christianity in order to promote and defend islam.

Every.
Single.
Time.

If you need to lie and deceive in order to make your religion 'right', maybe you should rethink your religion.

If people go back and read what you have written they can all see i speak the truth.

You have said like half a dozen times Jesus never bothered to tell non-Christians they need to cover and display modesty.

When asked why half a dozen times you have failed to give a clear and concise answer.

I stand by what i said. But insult me if you think it strengthens your argument, the people here are not blind.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

a [mostly] free society, who would have the ultimate authority to decide and establish a uniform dress code for everyone - Christian? Muslim? Hindu? Progressive? What would be considered acceptable, and who would enforce it?

Outdoors it is unenforceable except through totalitarian means.

But at schools, the same way it used to be enforced, through teachers and principals. These days the schools are overrun by marxists, so it's not viable in actuality, but in theory thats the answer.

In privately owned public places, like stores, malls, restaurants, and the like, the same way they would enforce no shoes no service. It should be common sense to not go to the grocery store or to dinner wearing only underwear, yet here we are in this society.

I also think if the clothes manufacturers were fined for marketing such "clothes" to our young daughters it would make a difference. The path of least resistance is immodest clothes unfortunately. I don't see this happening because the cultural subversion is on purpose.

Bigger questions:
- How would this compulsory dress code be any different from the compulsory Islamic state dress code such as Iran, the compulsory Taliban dress code in Afghanistan, or the compulsory government dress code such as North Korea?

There is a huge gap between women being covered literally head to toe in a solid black sheet, covering their entire face, as they do in taliban afghanistan, and simply not allowing skin showing between the collarbone and the knees, for example.

I don't know much about the situation in korea to comment.

- Did Jesus preach to the unbelievers about their state of dress and a dress code... or did He preach to repent and turn to Him?

From the Christian perspective: Modesty is the result of faith, and you cannot force anyone into faith. Spread the true gospel message and the rest will follow, including modesty. The ONLY reason we are where we are is the rejection of Jesus Christ in our society

I agree. Though he did say to sin no more, the issue is that people are being brainwashed that their behavior is not sinful.

I don't think immodesty is a salvation issue, but an issue of testimony. Christians are held to a higher standard, and our behavior or appearance is judged by others.

I also deeply desire a return to modesty, but unless someone is violating public decency laws, it's their freedom to dress how they want. There are pros and cons to every society. I'll take the one where people are free to choose and the gospel can be freely preached over an oppressive tyrannical regime where every aspect of your life is controlled, people are abused, and the gospel forbidden

The problem is that what was public decency has been eroding. Laws tha tused to prohibit oublic nudity have been overturned in some states. Does morality change just because the elites are flooding the masses with axtivist judges, terrible examples and cheaply made affordable indecent clothes?

Even in the west women did not go around half naked until relatively recently. Women are being indoctrinated that immodesty is something to aspire to, that there is no sense of respect for othere.

And yes, i would have to agree that i would pick this over the taliban. But in all honesty, both choices are bad.

 

[Daze]

And there's a clear lack of understanding here. @Lurking009 just fyi, a Muslim can't not believe in Jesus (or Moses or...). @Daze I think you have to be more clear here. Sorry for acting as a moderator, remove if necessary.

She has not been kind to Islam since I've known her akhi so i don't expect any difference today. But when i know Jesus taught women to cover, and she's saying only Christians got this message. I know she's a liar. I'm just calling her out on it.

 

[Aazaad]

She has not been kind to Islam since I've known her akhi so i don't expect any difference today. But when i know Jesus taught women to cover, and she's saying only Christians got this message. I know she's a liar. I'm just calling her out on it.

All prophets, or to be accurate, messengers, have been sent to guide all of humanity, but unfortunately many believers (in all religions pretty much), have been led to believe otherwise.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Your Jesus want's to see people in hell because he withheld information from them. Literally what you're saying.

She already said several times how Jesus never said people go to hell for being immodest.

Jesus gave people the information needed to avoid hell - believe in Him and repent.

This means if unbelievers don't believe in Him they go to hell regardless of how modest or immodest they were.


Just because you reject the gospel message doesn't mean it hasn't been explained, at 5 yr old level, many times.

 

[Daze]

She already said several times how Jesus never said people go to hell for being immodest.

Jesus gave people the information needed to avoid hell - believe in Him and repent.

This means if unbelievers don't believe in Him they go to hell regardless of how modest or immodest they were.


Just because you reject the gospel message doesn't mean it hasn't been explained, at 5 yr old level, many times.

What she has said is Jesus withheld information from non-Chrisitans.

Picture this scenario. Say your prophet was Moses. Moses never told you killing was wrong. So you go out and kill someone.
Hows God gonna deal with you? Is he gonna reward you? Is ignorance of Gods laws an excuse? Will ignorance of mans laws keep you out of jail?

If you read between the lines she is saying Jesus intends people to go to hell because he withheld impertinent information from them.

When asked why.. repeatedly, no answer was given. I don't know how to make the situation more simplistic then this without drawing pictures for you people.

If i have misunderstood something the fault is mine. But this is where we are at.