Aisha's age at the time of her marriage

Behumble

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No, cultural relativism has it’s uses, sure. Food choices are a good example of cultural relativism because people have become more tolerant of food from cultures that are not their own. In the past people were more likely to find some types of foods unacceptable, but now they are more likely to not judge others based on their food choices.

But the same can not be said when morality is objective and yet passed off as subject to any given time and place. Hitler killing Jews was morally ok in Germany in those times - yet - fast forward today and it could never happen again in Germany.

But in many parts of the world, the female of the species are getting married as young as 9 years of age even today, and this has nothing to do with cultural relativism because it’s something that is a constant and not dependent on the norms of another culture elswhere. For example, It is estimated that 76 percent of Niger’s girls marry before the age of 18, and 28 percent marry before the age of 15. In Trinidad and Tobago, some girls marry as young as 12. I could go on but you get the point, it’s not cultural relativism if you do not accept it to be the norm today, which you most probably will not. What this does demonstrate is that a norm cannot be ascertained by any universal measure when the measures themselves are extant in varying degrees around the world throughout the ages. And that nuance, flies over the head of dick fingered bozos like ToT who love a good scratch n sniff card to wipe their boogers onto.

"the period 1996 to 2016, which showed there were 3,478 child marriages during that period and of these figure, a mere 74 were males under the age of 18."

"11-year-olds up to 16-year-olds were married off to men in the age bracket of close to 36, 46 and 52 years of age."

Of all the child marriages, how many were mutually consented by both parties? Because forced/arrange marriages are still common today. Just because these marriages take place does not mean it is morally right.

If you were an 11-16 year old how happy would you be to be at the prospects of marrying someone in the 36-52 age range?

If it was so common during the times of the prophets why were none of them an example of this? Why do we not hear about any of the prophets marrying at a tender age of puberty?

 

amaranthine

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No, cultural relativism has it’s uses, sure. Food choices are a good example of cultural relativism because people have become more tolerant of food from cultures that are not their own. In the past people were more likely to find some types of foods unacceptable, but now they are more likely to not judge others based on their food choices.

But the same can not be said when morality is objective and yet passed off as subject to any given time and place. Hitler killing Jews was morally ok in Germany in those times - yet - fast forward today and it could never happen again in Germany.

But in many parts of the world, the female of the species are getting married as young as 9 years of age even today, and this has nothing to do with cultural relativism because it’s something that is a constant and not dependent on the norms of another culture elswhere. For example, It is estimated that 76 percent of Niger’s girls marry before the age of 18, and 28 percent marry before the age of 15. In Trinidad and Tobago, some girls marry as young as 12. I could go on but you get the point, it’s not cultural relativism if you do not accept it to be the norm today, which you most probably will not. What this does demonstrate is that a norm cannot be ascertained by any universal measure when the measures themselves are extant in varying degrees around the world throughout the ages. And that nuance, flies over the head of dick fingered bozos like ToT who love a good scratch n sniff card to wipe their boogers onto.
"What this does demonstrate is that a norm cannot be ascertained by any universal measure when the measures themselves are extant in varying degrees around the world throughout the ages." What you are describing here IS relativism so I don't get what you are trying to say elsewhere. A culture is not culturally relativist, a person judging a culture however can be when he takes the criteria of "anything goes" (relativism) when observing a seeming constant in the culture he is evaluating. You can therefore either say:"marrying 9 year olds to old men/women is absolutely evil (evil in every time and place)" and give your reasoning for it or you can be a cultural relativist about it and say:"marrying 9 year olds to old men/women is neither evil nor good vecause the evilness of an act is defined by a culture's standards." There is nothing nuanced about it. Nuances are usually something people's instinct is telling them that something is wrong but try to find a justification (either for themselves or for others) for doing it anyway.

Your nastiness towards TOT speaks of your character and there is no nuance to it. It is nasty.
 

TrollingTroubles

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"What this does demonstrate is that a norm cannot be ascertained by any universal measure when the measures themselves are extant in varying degrees around the world throughout the ages." What you are describing here IS relativism so I don't get what you are trying to say elsewhere. A culture is not culturally relativist, a person judging a culture however can be when he takes the criteria of "anything goes" (relativism) when observing a seeming constant in the culture he is evaluating. You can therefore either say:"marrying 9 year olds to old men/women is absolutely evil (evil in every time and place)" and give your reasoning for it or you can be a cultural relativist about it and say:"marrying 9 year olds to old men/women is neither evil nor good vecause the evilness of an act is defined by a culture's standards." There is nothing nuanced about it. Nuances are usually something people's instinct is telling them that something is wrong but try to find a justification (either for themselves or for others) for doing it anyway.

Your nastiness towards TOT speaks of your character and there is no nuance to it. It is nasty.
See, I knew you would make this about me instead of sticking with your original line of enquiry, which btw is actually laughable. What’s even more ridiculous is how you’ve totally ignored ToT’s use of foul language. This just proves one thing, you only want to see what you want to see… and you’re trying to discuss cultural relativism scoff. Gtfo lol.

Anyway, you have a nice day.
 
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amaranthine

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See, I knew you would make this about me instead of sticking with your original line of enquiry, which btw is actually laughable. What’s even more ridiculous is how you’ve totally ignored ToT’s use of foul language. This just proves one thing, you only want to see what you want to see… and you’re trying to discuss cultural relativism scoff. Gtfo lol.

Anyway, you have a nice day.
What did I make about you? You are unclear and vague instead of addressing the points I made. In what way did I not follow my original line of enquiry and what makes it laughable?
I won't go into who started it between you two as I don't care. Me noticing your foul language has nothing to do with cultural relativism.
 
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TrollingTroubles

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What did I make about you? You are unclear and vague instead of addressing the points I made. In what way did I not follow my original line of enquiry and what makes it laughable?
I won't go into who started it between you two as I don't care. Me noticing your foul language has nothing to do with cultural relativism.
You should try sticking with the topic instead of attempting character assassination, next time.
 

TempestOfTempo

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See, I knew you would make this about me instead of sticking with your original line of enquiry, which btw is actually laughable. What’s even more ridiculous is how you’ve totally ignored ToT’s use of foul language. This just proves one thing, you only want to see what you want to see… and you’re trying to discuss cultural relativism scoff. Gtfo lol.

Anyway, you have a nice day.
Where did I cuss? You keep claiming this in multiple threads, yet every time I ask you for examples you just disappear, only to return later with more fitna... and no excuses for your lies and slander.
 

TempestOfTempo

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No, cultural relativism has it’s uses, sure. Food choices are a good example of cultural relativism because people have become more tolerant of food from cultures that are not their own. In the past people were more likely to find some types of foods unacceptable, but now they are more likely to not judge others based on their food choices.

But the same can not be said when morality is objective and yet passed off as subject to any given time and place. Hitler killing Jews was morally ok in Germany in those times - yet - fast forward today and it could never happen again in Germany.

But in many parts of the world, the female of the species are getting married as young as 9 years of age even today, and this has nothing to do with cultural relativism because it’s something that is a constant and not dependent on the norms of another culture elswhere. For example, It is estimated that 76 percent of Niger’s girls marry before the age of 18, and 28 percent marry before the age of 15. In Trinidad and Tobago, some girls marry as young as 12. I could go on but you get the point, it’s not cultural relativism if you do not accept it to be the norm today, which you most probably will not. What this does demonstrate is that a norm cannot be ascertained by any universal measure when the measures themselves are extant in varying degrees around the world throughout the ages. And that nuance, flies over the head of dick fingered bozos like ToT who love a good scratch n sniff card to wipe their boogers onto.
"But in many parts of the world, the female of the species are getting married as young as 9 years of age even today, and this has nothing to do with cultural relativism because it’s something that is a constant and not dependent on the norms of another culture elswhere."
You mean in many parts of the "Muslim" world. This is an epidemic among born-and-bred Muslims. Nowhere else is this phenomenon even remotely close to being as widespread... no matter how many bottom-of-the-barrel, barely relevant, left field examples you dredge up. But irregardless, none of the examples you provided even mention 9 year olds, do they?

"What this does demonstrate is that a norm cannot be ascertained by any universal measure when the measures themselves are extant in varying degrees around the world throughout the ages. And that nuance..."
In your mush-mouthed attempt at another justification for your vicious agenda of child sex-trafficking, r*pe and murder not only do you expose your intellectual deficiency, you are now employing the hep, new faux-liberal defense of "nuance"... which when used by that crowd translates to "my acceptance and capitulation"... very telling choice of words there. Its their go-to code word for when they are caught in their own hypocrisy and cant explain/lie their way out of it.

You are a complete clown show all by yourself but PLEASE dont let that stop you from continuing to post and expose you and your disgusting, disgraceful crowd.
 

TempestOfTempo

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"the period 1996 to 2016, which showed there were 3,478 child marriages during that period and of these figure, a mere 74 were males under the age of 18."

"11-year-olds up to 16-year-olds were married off to men in the age bracket of close to 36, 46 and 52 years of age."

Of all the child marriages, how many were mutually consented by both parties? Because forced/arrange marriages are still common today. Just because these marriages take place does not mean it is morally right.

If you were an 11-16 year old how happy would you be to be at the prospects of marrying someone in the 36-52 age range?

If it was so common during the times of the prophets why were none of them an example of this? Why do we not hear about any of the prophets marrying at a tender age of puberty?

"If it was so common during the times of the prophets why were none of them an example of this? Why do we not hear about any of the prophets marrying at a tender age of puberty?"
This practice is supposed to be based off of hadeeth, which forms the basis for sunnah... which is supposed to be the most advisable actions/lifestyle Muslims should be striving for according to this school of thought. The sahaba (companions of Muhammed) were there during the times these would have been established and they took his example very serious and held it to a strict standard... yet when asked for examples of the sahaba engaging in marriage/consummation with 6-9 year old brides, this pathetic crowd of p***phile promoters have yet to produce even one example.
 

Behumble

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"If it was so common during the times of the prophets why were none of them an example of this? Why do we not hear about any of the prophets marrying at a tender age of puberty?"
This practice is supposed to be based off of hadeeth, which forms the basis for sunnah... which is supposed to be the most advisable actions/lifestyle Muslims should be striving for according to this school of thought. The sahaba (companions of Muhammed) were there during the times these would have been established and they took his example very serious and held it to a strict standard... yet when asked for examples of the sahaba engaging in marriage/consummation with 6-9 year old brides, this pathetic crowd of p***phile promoters have yet to produce even one example.
Here's some food for thought:

What was the purpose of the messengers? To convey the message.
What was the message?
That there is only one Creator.

When the messengers call the people to follow "them" by "them" they mean follow the message. Yes they were rightly guided but they were also human, fallible and capable of sin just like the rest of us.

If people are going to believe in the hadith that Aisha was 6/9 then they must also accept all hadiths, including this one:

Sahih Muslim 1453 d
Umm Salama said to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her):

A young boy who is at the threshold of puberty comes to you. I, however, do not like that he should come to me, whereupon 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: Don't you see in Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) a model for you? She also said: The wife of Abu Hudhaifa said: Messenger of Allah, Salim comes to me and now he is a (grown-up) person, and there is something that (rankles) in the mind of Abu Hudhaifa about him, whereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Suckle him (so that he may become your foster-child), and thus he may be able to come to you (freely).


According to this narration the Prophet told the wife of Abu Hudhaifa to suckle "a young boy who is at the threshold of puberty".

We know that Allah has prescribed the period to suckle is around 2 years from birth so why does the rightly guided Prophet prescribes this to a boy on the cusp of becoming a man?


"He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ the Book, of which some verses are precise—they are the foundation of the Book—while others are elusive. Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations—but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah. As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason."
3:7
 

TempestOfTempo

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Messages
7,996
Here's some food for thought:

What was the purpose of the messengers? To convey the message.
What was the message?
That there is only one Creator.

When the messengers call the people to follow "them" by "them" they mean follow the message. Yes they were rightly guided but they were also human, fallible and capable of sin just like the rest of us.

If people are going to believe in the hadith that Aisha was 6/9 then they must also accept all hadiths, including this one:

Sahih Muslim 1453 d
Umm Salama said to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her):

A young boy who is at the threshold of puberty comes to you. I, however, do not like that he should come to me, whereupon 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: Don't you see in Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) a model for you? She also said: The wife of Abu Hudhaifa said: Messenger of Allah, Salim comes to me and now he is a (grown-up) person, and there is something that (rankles) in the mind of Abu Hudhaifa about him, whereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Suckle him (so that he may become your foster-child), and thus he may be able to come to you (freely).


According to this narration the Prophet told the wife of Abu Hudhaifa to suckle "a young boy who is at the threshold of puberty".

We know that Allah has prescribed the period to suckle is around 2 years from birth so why does the rightly guided Prophet prescribes this to a boy on the cusp of becoming a man?


"He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ the Book, of which some verses are precise—they are the foundation of the Book—while others are elusive. Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations—but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah. As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason."
3:7
They are so far removed from Islam that the only thing which could prove they are actually Muslim... is their lack of shirk. And that is only between them and God. But it makes it so hard when these people have almost all of the resources locked up and they promote these agendas at full blast. Your post is very serious and important, thank you for sharing it.
 

Maldarker

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Messages
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Here's some food for thought:

What was the purpose of the messengers? To convey the message.
What was the message?
That there is only one Creator.

When the messengers call the people to follow "them" by "them" they mean follow the message. Yes they were rightly guided but they were also human, fallible and capable of sin just like the rest of us.

If people are going to believe in the hadith that Aisha was 6/9 then they must also accept all hadiths, including this one:

Sahih Muslim 1453 d
Umm Salama said to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her):

A young boy who is at the threshold of puberty comes to you. I, however, do not like that he should come to me, whereupon 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: Don't you see in Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) a model for you? She also said: The wife of Abu Hudhaifa said: Messenger of Allah, Salim comes to me and now he is a (grown-up) person, and there is something that (rankles) in the mind of Abu Hudhaifa about him, whereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Suckle him (so that he may become your foster-child), and thus he may be able to come to you (freely).


According to this narration the Prophet told the wife of Abu Hudhaifa to suckle "a young boy who is at the threshold of puberty".

We know that Allah has prescribed the period to suckle is around 2 years from birth so why does the rightly guided Prophet prescribes this to a boy on the cusp of becoming a man?


"He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ the Book, of which some verses are precise—they are the foundation of the Book—while others are elusive. Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations—but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah. As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason."
3:7
Think thats a different circumstance not? What is the underlying narrative of the story is the child sickly does only the mothers milk keep the young boy alive? Big difference between sexing a girl underage and sucking on a breast if to keep a child alive. Just saying.
 

Behumble

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Think thats a different circumstance not? What is the underlying narrative of the story is the child sickly does only the mothers milk keep the young boy alive? Big difference between sexing a girl underage and sucking on a breast if to keep a child alive. Just saying.
The circumstances were not to do with an illness, it was to do with making the young boy a mahram for the woman in order to be in her presence.

My point was, how legitimate and true are these narrations?
 

Maldarker

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Messages
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The circumstances were not to do with an illness, it was to do with making the young boy a mahram for the woman in order to be in her presence.

My point was, how legitimate and true are these narrations?
Well idk if its true or not but.....if its for the reason of being escorted out in public with the young boy then thats just strange and would be in essence child abuse.
 
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Thanks for bringing this back! Hopefully people will really see that this group on here are just a bunch of bullies with horrible ideologies.
 
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@TempestOfTempo
you're a little off balance when you accuse random people of pedophillia.
don't over exaggerate.

the grooming gangs stuff in the uk has nothing to do with that hadith ffs.
literally those are guys who drink alcohol, use drugs and commit ADULTERY..and you know what islam says about adultery.
 
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