Echad or Yachid?

[elsbet]

Same goes here Red you seem nice as well.
As you know I believe we will stand in front of the Creator in the day of judgement and we will be answerable for our choices on earth. I pray that you and others look at this issue from every angle possible a hundred times because of the dire ramifications associated with your associating partners with God.

No partners are being associated. A partner is an entirely different entity, wholly separate and of another mind.

Were you going to comment on the material in the OP? Would be a shame if this dwindled into another dreary argument thread-- derailed... like so many others. Js.

 

[Bacsi]

Trinity is SUCH an important doctrine that the word Trinity never appears in the Christian Bible.

Jesus never calls himself God in the gospels.

Christians follow Tertullian, who married Jesus with Greek Platonic paganism.

 

[KoncreteMind]

Strongs Concordance is a useful resource...

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/259.htm

From the link: adjective number one

Genesis 43:11
We are all sons of one(echad) man, we are honest men, your servants are not spies.

Numbers 35:30
If any one(echad) kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the evidence of witnesses; but no person shall be put to death on the testimony of one(echad) witness.

Leviticus 22:28
And whether the mother is a cow or a ewe, you shall not kill both her and her young in one(echad) day

Context tells us if its a union "one" or a literal "one" and nothing from the context of Deuteronomy 6:4 suggests its a union and not a literal "one"

 

[TokiEl]

The very Name of God is written with two Persons !

Where'd you get that? Exodus says the name of "God" is "I am" not "We are".

Oh ok you were serious ?

I guess i'll give you a serious answer then.



Exodus 6 2"And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:

3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."


In the Hebrew script the Name of God is written like this יְהֹוָה but in ancient Hebrew pictograph script the Name of God was written like this...

Two Persons !

 

[TokiEl]

The ancient Hebrew pictograph script for the Name of God includes two persons... where one whose arm drives a nail into the other.

 

[TokiEl]

Jesus never calls himself God in the gospels.

John 8 58“Truly, truly, I tell you, Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

John 14 1"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well."

John 14 8"Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” 9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Trinity is SUCH an important doctrine that the word Trinity never appears in the Christian Bible.

Jesus never calls himself God in the gospels.

Christians follow Tertullian, who married Jesus with Greek Platonic paganism.

Its so strange you should say that - my understanding of the Bible started when I had the Gospel of Luke on cassette tape years ago. It wasn't Tertullian who conveyed to me who Jesus was. He is quite able to do that with His Word and by the Holy Spirit.

When I came to "formally" understand the doctrine of the Trinity years later, it came as no surprise!

 

[DesertRose]

Were you going to comment on the material in the OP? Would be a shame if this dwindled into another dreary argument thread-- derailed... like so many others. Js.

Sure I will!
I thought that echad was e-ch as in cheese and did not pay attention to the word but sister @grateful servant picked up on the fact that it is the same as the arabic word ahad and is probably pronounced as ekhad by them. So I will second her comment.

ps:From wiki:
Ahad is a Middle Eastern given forename primarily used by Muslims[1] and Jews (e.g. Ahad Ha'am). It is also used as a family name (surname) (e.g. Oli Ahad).

In Arabic Ahad means "one", "unique" or "matchless" and is usually used by Muslims when referring to God [2] by prefixing Ahad with Al-, i.e. Al-Ahad.

Echad sounds an awful lot like Ahad. Strange how the Christians try to use a strictly monotheistic verse from the OT to validate their polytheism.

I'm glad that Red brought this to our attention though, because now I see another way in which God shines His truth on all of their falsehoods with the revelation of the Quran. In fact, it shows how Quran is Muhaymin over the Scriptures that came before it: affirming the truths in them (like the clear and unequivocal meaning of Deut 6:4) and clarifying the falsehoods that came to be associated with them (like this misguided Christian interpretation). Here is the true meaning of echad, which, I don't think any Torah believing Jew would deny.

Qul Huwallaahu Ahad
Allaahus-Samad
Lam Yalid walam Yulad
wa lam Yakun lahu kufawan Ahad.

Say: He is Allaah, the One.
Allaah - As-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks)
He begets not nor was He begotten
And there is none co-equal or comparable to Him.

With this one small chapter in the Quran, the Almighty nullifies both Red's and Toki's misguided understanding of Him. God is Great!

 

[Bacsi]

In my view, it's OK to believe in 3 or 10 Gods as long as you are completely honest about what you believe in and how you substantiate your beliefs.

The problem with the mainstream Christian theology is that it's extremely confusing and dishonest. It's not good. Islam is way more straightforward and logical.

The doctrine of the Trinity contradicts the Christian Bible. Even its inventor Tertullian of Carthage wasn't a trinitarian in the modern sense. The New Testament contradicts and misquotes the Old Testament. Etc. Confusion upon confusion. It's not good for the human heart and mind. Accepting such a conglobulated tangle of many contradictions and intentional dishonesties is a sure recipe for hypocritical and fogged soul and mindset.

Life totally demonstrates it. "Ye shall know them by their fruits". Just look at Christian societies and churches throughout history and today. It's so obvious.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

In my view, it's OK to believe in 3 or 10 Gods as long as you are completely honest about what you believe in and how you substantiate your beliefs.

The problem with the mainstream Christian theology is that it's extremely confusing and dishonest. It's not good. Islam is way more straightforward and logical.

The doctrine of the Trinity contradicts the Christian Bible. Even its inventor Tertullian of Carthage wasn't a trinitarian in the modern sense. The New Testament contradicts and misquotes the Old Testament. Etc. Confusion upon confusion. It's not good for the human heart and mind. Accepting such a conglobulated tangle of many contradictions and intentional dishonesties is a sure recipe for hypocritical and fogged soul and mindset.

Why do you assume that what is most "logical" from a human standpoint is automatically the most likely to be true from a divine one. I agree that a god that was thought up by a committee would not in all likelihood be the God of the Bible, but that alone does not trouble me in the slightest!!!

 

[elsbet]

Sure I will!
I thought that echad was e-ch as in cheese and did not pay attention to the word...

You've lost me on this, I'm afraid...

You mean the pronunciation?

... but sister @grateful servant picked up on the fact that it is the same as the arabic word ahad and is probably pronounced as ekhad by them. So I will second her comment.

ps:From wiki:
Ahad is a Middle Eastern given forename primarily used by Muslims[1] and Jews (e.g. Ahad Ha'am). It is also used as a family name (surname) (e.g. Oli Ahad).

In Arabic Ahad means "one", "unique" or "matchless" and is usually used by Muslims when referring to God [2] by prefixing Ahad with Al-, i.e. Al-Ahad.

This is what I was looking for -- though I (naturally) arrived at a different conclusion.


259. echad
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
a, alike, alone, altogether, and, anything, apiece, a certain

A numeral from 'achad; properly, united, i.e. One; or (as an ordinal) first -- a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together,

see HEBREW 'achad

◄ 258. achad ►

Strong's Concordance
achad: go one way or other
Original Word: אָחַד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: achad
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-khad')
Short Definition: collect

Primitive root: to unify, collect... go one way or another -

Which is referring to one of a unified 'many' or 'multiple '.

But Hebrew and Arabic are different languages. Reference to Ahad is made, under the word chathan (Strongs 2860... likely, unrelated), and, as you and @grateful servant said, to a proper name.. eg Ahad or Ahab.

Kings 8:27 son-in-law of the house of Ahad...
[properly, Ahab].

***

 

[elsbet]

Why do you assume that what is most "logical" from a human standpoint is automatically the most likely to be true from a divine one.

I'm going to take a shot at this-- it is likely because a large number of other 'logical humans' will agree. Imo, it is more logical to say that the things that are not human cannot be understood by human reason. We, with our limited perspective, still see through a glass, darkly.

 

[grateful servant]

But Hebrew and Arabic are different languages. Reference to Ahad is made, under the word chathan (Strongs 2860... likely, unrelated), and, as you and @grateful servant said, to a proper name.. eg Ahad or Ahab.

Kings 8:27 son-in-law of the house of Ahad...
[properly, Ahab].

***

I used to own a Strong's Concordance but lost it in a move... Could just look online I guess.

Hebrew and Arabic are both Semitic root languages and are similar in etymology

Because both languages belong to the Semitic language family, they are similar. As an Arabic speaker, you'll easily notice the strong similarities between both languages if you listen to a Hebrew conversation. You will also start connecting pronunciation and the sounds to figure out how similar they are and wonder "is that true that an Arabic speaker can easily learn Hebrew, or vice versa, as most people think?"

Another similarity is the shared vocabulary structure, Binyanim. Which dictates how verbs are conjugated.

The best way to answer that it is to present some examples from the two languages to show how they are connected.

Examples of similar words between the two languages:

Boy - Yeled - Walad
Girl - Bat -Bint
Sun- Shemsh - Shams
Peace - Shallom - Salam
Day - Yom - Yawm
AND - One - Echad - Ahad

I don't follow the rest of what you are trying to connect but Ahad is not Ahab You can put this احد (arabic "ahad") into Google translate then translate to Hebrew and you will get this: אחד (Hebrew "echad") And if you translate that Hebrew to English - it comes up as (one, single, mono) So whatever it says in Strongs for meaning one - like in Deut 6 that is in the OP KNOW ISRAEL OUR LORD IS ONE- then that is the meaning I am referring to in Arabic. Not AHAB or anyone else. By the way - is that a typo then in Kings? House of Ahad or house of Ahab or is that your own interpretation of the verse? May God guide us all.

 

[elsbet]

I used to own a Strong's Concordance but lost it in a move... Could just look online I guess.

Hebrew and Arabic are both Semitic root languages and are similar in etymology



I don't follow the rest of what you are trying to connect but Ahad is not Ahab You can put this احد (arabic "ahad") into Google translate then translate to Hebrew and you will get this: אחד (Hebrew "echad") And if you translate that Hebrew to English - it comes up as (one, single, mono) So whatever it says in Strongs for meaning one - like in Deut 6 that is in the OP KNOW ISRAEL OUR LORD IS ONE- then that is the meaning I am referring to in Arabic. Not AHAB or anyone else. By the way - is that a typo then in Kings? House of Ahad or house of Ahab or is that your own interpretation of the verse? May God guide us all.

It is all straight out of Strongs Concordance, available online. I linked it, above.

And there is no connection, you're right-- your arabic word is not the same.. source noted (yours).

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

"In modern Hebrew, echad is a word for the number one. Etymologically, however, it is related to the word yachad, together. When it is used for two people, like a man and a woman, it signifies their action of becoming one, not a static or passive unity.

When it is used for God, similarly, it's not just a statement that there are not two gods, or zero, or many: it's about the active unity of God in the world, demanding that we do justice. We cannot take refuge from the demands of YHVH by saying we serve Baal or Astarte, or Thor, or Kali. One god means one moral standard by which we need to scrutinize our actions at all times."

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-meaning-of-the-word-echad

 

[KoncreteMind]

Oh ok you were serious ?

Yes.

I guess i'll give you a serious answer then.



Exodus 6 2"And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:

3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."


In the Hebrew script the Name of God is written like this יְהֹוָה but in ancient Hebrew pictograph script the Name of God was written like this...

Two Persons !

But the name wasnt "Jehovah" according to that same book.

Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

Thats what He said His name was (of course in Hebrew). Hovah means "mischief/ruin/disaster" so Im not sure why you think thats the name. Well I am sure why, but you didnt have to be on a high horse presenting an obviously wrong name. Either way, as I said, to each their own...

 

[TokiEl]

But the name wasnt "Jehovah" according to that same book.

Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

Thats what He said His name was (of course in Hebrew). Hovah means "mischief/ruin/disaster" so Im not sure why you think thats the name. Well I am sure why, but you didnt have to be on a high horse presenting an obviously wrong name. Either way, as I said, to each their own...

L0L. Troll.

How much they pay you for your soul ?

 

[KoncreteMind]

L0L. Troll.

[sarcasm]What a way to support your position [/sarcasm]

How much they pay you for your soul ?

Unlike your fictitious belief that a man can pay/die for your soul, that doesnt fly in regards to what is written in the law and the prophets. And no, Mark, John,Peter, James, Paul, Jude etc... were not prophets in any sense of the word.

Anyways, your avoidance and this thread in general goes along with what I already said in this thread. Christianity for the most part only considers the OT when it benefits their belief system. When it doesnt (such as here specifically God saying what Moses was to tell the Israelites His name was/is) its irrelevant/done away with/ignored. Typical...

 

[TokiEl]

Unlike your fictitious belief that a man can pay/die for your soul, that doesnt fly in regards to what is written in the law and the prophets. And no, Mark, John,Peter, James, Paul, Jude etc... were not prophets in any sense of the word.

Anyways, your avoidance and this thread in general goes along with what I already said in this thread. Christianity for the most part only considers the OT when it benefits their belief system. When it doesnt (such as here specifically God saying what Moses was to tell the Israelites His name was/is) its irrelevant/done away with/ignored. Typical...

TROLL.

 

[elsbet]

Yes.
But the name wasnt "Jehovah" according to that same book.

Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

Thats what He said His name was (of course in Hebrew). Hovah means "mischief/ruin/disaster" so Im not sure why you think thats the name. Well I am sure why, but you didnt have to be on a high horse presenting an obviously wrong name. Either way, as I said, to each their own...

Are we referring to YHVH?

*waves* Hi, KM...